Lessons for Raising Resilient Kids - Jeff Nelligan

Robert interviews Jeff Nelligan, author of 'Four Lessons from My Three Sons: How You Can Raise Resilient Sons.' Jeff shares his background and the inspiration behind writing the book. They discuss the importance of resilience and the challenges faced by the current generation. They also touch on topics such as participation trophies, the impact of screens on children, and the value of being early. The four lessons from the book are guiding personal conduct, developing confidence, fostering resilience, and creating resilient kids through hard truths. The conversation discusses the importance of setting goals, holding oneself accountable, and breaking down goals into manageable steps. It emphasizes the need for parents to be actively involved in their children's lives and provide guidance and support. The concept of the 'jackass kid' is introduced, referring to self-obsessed and attention-seeking behaviors that parents should discourage. The impact of COVID-19 on children's physical and mental health is also discussed, highlighting the need for parents to help their children stay active and engaged during challenging times.

Takeaways

• Resilience is the capacity to withstand or recover quickly from difficulties.
• Parents play a crucial role in raising resilient children.
• The current generation faces challenges such as living at home longer and excessive screen time.
• Accomplishments and performance are rewarded and respected in the world.
• Teaching personal conduct, developing confidence, fostering resilience, and embracing hard truths are essential for raising resilient kids. Setting goals and holding oneself accountable are important for personal growth and development.
• Parents should actively engage with their children and provide guidance and support.
• Discouraging self-obsessed and attention-seeking behaviors in children is crucial.
• The COVID-19 pandemic has had a negative impact on children's physical and mental health, and parents should help them stay active and engaged.

Transcript

Robert (00:00)
Hey everyone. Welcome back to the dad, dad's podcast. So the definition of resilience is the capacity to withstand or recover quickly from difficulties. You know, it's something that I strive daily to implement in my sons and well today's guest, Jeff Nelligan actually wrote a book just on that subject. The book's title is four lessons from my three sons, how you can raise resilient sons.

Jeff, welcome to the podcast.

Jeff Nelligan (00:32)
Hey Robert, thanks for having me on. This is great.

Robert (00:34)
Jeff, I really do. I appreciate your time and look, I thoroughly enjoyed your book. And before we dive into it, can you give me a little background on yourself? I know that you're an accomplished author, you know, public affairs executive in DC. You've worked for three members of Congress, twice presidential appointee, army reserve veteran. Tell me more.

Jeff Nelligan (00:59)
Well, you know, you've listed off all the credentials there. Yeah, I've had a good life in politics, you know, politics like business, like we were discussing earlier, it's an erratic game. You know, you're hot and then you're not. And those ups and downs come, you know, sometimes out of nowhere. So I had a good life in terms of the professional side. But of course, as you and I know, and every dad listening to this,

The biggest success and the biggest satisfaction in life has come from having three sons, three boys.

Robert (01:37)
That is so true. That is so true. Hey, so I wanted to ask you something. What made you write the book? Like what really, where did you get that inkling, that desire to write?

Jeff Nelligan (01:52)
sure. You know, I had just I just dropped off my youngest son at West Point and I driven back and I was sitting outside of my backyard with, you know, a couple cans of Red Bull and a cigar after after 250 miles on the road and I was thinking, you know, the last one is gone. You know, the the nest is truly empty.

And my other two kids are also officers, two naval officers, and they were obviously gone too. At that time, both were deployed overseas. And I thought, you know, there's something to be said here. And at the end of his youngest's journey through high school, now the beginning of a military career, I'm gonna put down what I learned, what I learned from all that time with them, two decades.

At the same time, Robert, and we've talked about this earlier before, was my kind of uncertainty and a little bit of disillusionment with how our current generation, pretty much all of Gen Z and the youngest millennials, were turning out. And it wasn't just the anecdotes of an old man who walked uphill to school in the snow both ways. It was the statistics.

Robert (03:12)
right.

Jeff Nelligan (03:16)
that are out there for everyone to see. You look at how many kids live at home between the ages of 18 and 32, it's 41%. You look at the amount of time a typical 10 to 18 year old spends on a phone every day, eight hours, 47 minutes. You look at the job surveys of kids coming out of college and two different surveys noting that...

Robert (03:26)
Cheers.

Jeff Nelligan (03:44)
in the first interview with a corporation or even a small firm, that 25 % of the kids bring their parents to the interview. So these are statistics among many statistics showing that you've really got a generation that is unsteady on its feet. And that's another reason I wrote the book.

Robert (04:11)
Jeff, you said that and I laughed. My youngest son and I went into an ice cream store about a week ago, ice cream shop. and here comes this mom and her son. Son's behind the mom and she walks right up, asks to speak to a manager and I'm thinking, Ooh, I can't wait to hear what this is about. And so the manager comes out and she said, my son would like to apply for a job. And the son's like,

Jeff Nelligan (04:28)
Yeah.

Robert (04:36)
The son's probably, He's definitely older in high school and he starts asking, he's asking the son, you know, the time he would like to, to, you know, his hours and different things. She's answering every single one of them. You know, what year he is, what his age is, his hours, everything.

And the boys just kind of sheepishly behind his mom. And I walked out of there and that was a good learning moment for my son, for my youngest son. And we were laughing about that this past weekend, you know. You know, the moms in there trying to get him a job. And I mean, part of it's a lot, it's parenting. It is parenting. It is.

Jeff Nelligan (05:21)
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, the idea that mom, you know, is a sincere, earnest person, but she's acted as a snowplow for the kid for his entire life. And now, like you noted, you know, high school, perhaps older. And at that age, he can't confront the man directly and say, you know, I'd like a job. My name is John.

And these are the things I can do for you. And now, like I said about the interview statistic, extrapolate that to a guy who's 22 or 23, who's interviewing for any size corporation or small firm or any job. And one out of four are bringing their parents to an interview. I mean, it's unbelievable.

Robert (05:52)
Yeah. Yeah.

my gosh, that's just, it's scary. It is, that's scary for what is ahead. Look, what I really enjoyed with your book and we were talking about before we started recording, it's just, you provide so much advice in there and I'm really gonna jump around in your book. Anybody that's listening, dads or moms that,

Jeff Nelligan (06:14)
So, and that's kind of.

Robert (06:40)
You know, want to have a bigger impact on their kids' futures, the kids' future. I highly recommend this book. One thing you said in there that I loved or there are several, but one thing was if you could get in a, if you could get in a time machine and look at five years in the future as to what your children will be like if they have the same habits and same attitudes. That was, you know,

I read that and I literally stopped the book right then, stopped reading and sat down and visualized each one of my sons. And we've had talks about it. I mean, fortunately, I feel like they're pretty good, especially we'll go through when you talk about a good kid. But I think that part's so valuable is to look in the future with their same habits and their same attitudes.

Jeff Nelligan (07:32)
Yes. And you know, that's that's playing the long game. And life is the long game because, you know, every day can be a day of destiny for what's going to happen to that kid or to that adult for that matter. I think, Robert, you know, parents don't understand. I didn't understand at an early age that 75 percent of the time we spend with our boy or girl in their whole lifetime.

is going to be spent by the time that kid is 12 years old.

That's 75 % of the time. By the age of 18, it's 90%. That means that you have to look at that kid at two or three or two weeks or eight and say, I've got to make those decisions and have that strategy for raising them right now. Because at 13, it's now 80%. And so I've got to make sure that he or she is strong enough to continue on.

Robert (08:05)
Crazy.

Wow, that's a sobering statement right there. I mean, it is. And I look at, I hate to keep talking about my sons, but I look at them and I have that thought so often about just what's left. That's the time that's left and what has passed us by and trying to reinforce a lot of things that I tried to instill in them growing up.

You talk the four lessons and I'm just going to kind of go over it briefly. Go over those. I don't want to give too much of the book away. We could talk for two hours on your book. I mean, we really could. I enjoyed it so much. But four lessons, guiding personal conduct, developing confidence, fostering resilience, creating resilient kids through hard truths.

Jeff Nelligan (09:22)
Yeah, and you know, that's the resilience factor is is essential like you said at the top of the show Because no one gets a free ride in life certainly no kid and certainly no adult and the sooner that that kid can learn To hit an obstacle or a setback and get over it or around it or just not fold the better Because the next next week there's going to be a similar one in the following week in the following week

Robert (09:51)
That's true. That's very true. And resilience and facing those setbacks, those disappointments, maybe you didn't make a certain team, maybe you weren't on the first team, maybe you wanted to make varsity and you're JV, that resilience to keep chugging along, man, to keep to.

Look at what you can do better. I think it's so important instead of just tossing in the towel and switching to something else.

Jeff Nelligan (10:27)
Right. You know that the quitter analogy, you know, and we, you know, we, you and I, and probably many dads listening, use the athletic metaphor because my kids played athletics from the age of four and I've got a kid right now playing professional rugby. So his, his path, you know, has lasted over 20 years of playing sports, but the other two played in junior high, high school, college, and

You know, sports is a great metaphor, but I'll tell you, there are plenty of kids that are not good at sports. So the metaphor just goes to the marching band or the theater production or the robotics club or the chess club or scouts, anything where a group of like -minded kids get together and then work towards a goal with supportive parents, anything like that where kids have to be better. They have to.

improve their own standing with the kids around them. They have to go have that camaraderie of being in that team, whatever kind of team it is. And last, they have to put up with the adversity. Athletics is perfect because we all know at the end of the game, there's a scoreboard and there's a winner on it and a loser on it. And you want to have a kid that's never comfortable being the loser.

Robert (11:51)
That is, I love that. I love that. You know, you also in the book, you said the world rewards and respects accomplishments.

Jeff Nelligan (12:00)
It just does right. And, you know, one of the things I drove home with my kids was the idea of performance. You know, I remember when the kid was, you know, very young, nine, 10 years old, and we're driving, we're going to a lacrosse tournament where it was pretty heavy duty for, you know, selection beyond, you know, the age of 10. And we were driving down the main drag of this high -end prep school in mid -Atlantic.

Robert (12:01)
It does, yeah.

Jeff Nelligan (12:29)
And there's these signs on each side of the road, you know, banners, diversity, justice, equity, you know, fairness and inclusion. And we were reading them off as we were driving down the main drag. And I said, yeah, but let's not forget, SATs, all conference, GPA. And the kid starts laughing. Here's the 10 -year -old kid. He gets it.

And then I told them, I said, look, guy, you know, the old man, you know, I'm all for justice, baby, but you're going to play in a game in an hour where they don't care about your feelings. They care if you can catch and throw and run up and down a field and take hits, your coaches, your parents, your teachers, most important, your teachers and the adults in the neighborhood. So feelings are great.

But performance is the only thing that lasts.

Robert (13:31)
That's it. That's it. Hey, I want to ask you this participation trophies. What's your feeling on that?

Jeff Nelligan (13:35)
yeah. man. All our participate, you know, for the, for the few teams that they played where they got participation trophies, those trophies are in a landfill, you know, in New Jersey, probably.

Robert (13:46)
Hahaha!

That's like my son. I think it was my youngest one time. Maybe it was soccer, he got one. I said something to him, I said, what do you think about your trophy? He said, I don't care. You had these other kids and their parents were, look, you got a trophy, you got a trophy and making a big deal out of it. Let's go get ice cream for your trophy.

Jeff Nelligan (13:48)
You know.

Robert (14:11)
I hate I hate to say you have to be so focused on winning there comes a certain time and age where winning matters Yes effort going out there doing the best you can

But you better do everything you can to go out there and win. And, you know, it is the accomplishments that the world recognizes and rewards. I mean, it is this.

Jeff Nelligan (14:27)
Yes.

And, you know, I emphasize kind of like you that at a certain point, winning is is crucial because you're judged that way. As I say, I go back to the performance. But when I talk to parents, I say, you know, yeah, my kids were built on the aspect of winning. And if.

If they did, we're on the second team or they weren't getting playing time on the field. They went home and practice for months so they could get on the field. I said, but I don't buy into this whole participation thing, you know, because tell me the next time your kid brings home a D on a paper, you're going to be happy with that. Don't tell me that performance doesn't matter in anything because when your kids got the D or the F, you know, you're not going to be too pleased.

Robert (15:14)
God.

I know, I know, I know. I think about some of the school systems today and for a little while.

And they did change it after a lot of parent pushback. But my oldest son's school, I think if you made below a 70, you were able to retake the test. And you could get up to, I think, like a 90.

there's no, and I, and I told them, I said, look, no, if you, you have the option, if you make or maybe it was below a 90, I can't remember what it was, but you could retake the test if you made below an a, I think that was it. And you couldn't get any higher than a low a. And I told my sons, don't you dare. I'm not allowing you. I don't want you to retake because let me tell you something. If you're one day a surgeon, you're not going to be able to go back and.

Jeff Nelligan (15:50)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Robert (16:19)
redo the surgery. yeah, I messed that up. Sorry. You know, I amputated the wrong arm or, you know, replace the wrong valve. Let me do this one. If you're an attorney, you can't go before the judge again. And, let me retry this one more time. Cause I really miss some evidence there or, you know, like me, you know, if I'm doing a presentation to a company,

I can't, if I screw it up on a Thursday, I can't go back and say, hey, can I come back on Tuesday and, you know, re -present my presentation to you? No, you have one shot to do this and you better put everything into it. So it's, we are to blame. We are to blame, but we also, we as parents should blame society, but I think we're also the fix too. And,

Jeff Nelligan (16:54)
Right.

Well, we're definitely the fixed and the, you know, your example goes right back to what, to the ice cream shop, you know, that snowplow parent, that enabling, you know, teachers in this country have the toughest job there is next to coal miners, you know, law enforcement and the military, because they're dealing every day, eight hours with all the mistakes that the parents have made at home. And that kid sitting in front of them and they're having

Robert (17:23)
Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Nelligan (17:38)
They're the ones that have to maneuver through all the errors that have been made at the home. But to go to your point, yes, we are the fix. And number one is, and it's obvious in the stories you told me about you and your sons, that the only way through is absolute total engagement with the kids. And I will say secondarily, yanking that phone and that video gaming device out of their hands for good.

Robert (18:06)
That is the truth. Those screens are so dangerous and in so many different ways. And that's a whole nother subject, but they impact them negatively in so many ways. I think they lose a lot of focus, a lot of drive, besides all they can be exposed to on that. And it's just the games, the YouTube, the social medias, I mean, they are geared towards.

Jeff Nelligan (18:14)
yeah.

Robert (18:36)
engagement and continuing engagement and to keep you on that site. And that also it impacts the relationship the kids have with their parents too. I mean, it certainly does. Certainly does. Hey, so I know we've spoken a few times and we've kind of bonded and one of the things we bonded over was our kids athletics. And I was sharing with you about one day I was sharing with you about having to go to the.

Jeff Nelligan (18:48)
heck yeah! Yes.

Robert (19:04)
different events and everything else. And you were telling me you kind of missed those days. And one thing we found out we had in common was, and you even say in the book, was if you're five minutes early, you're late. Whether that's to sports, to school, to anything. And that could not be more true. I mean, just the anxiety that that can create.

Jeff Nelligan (19:08)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, you know, and that's a phrase from an old drill sergeant, big badass at Fort Benning, Georgia, when I was a young guy who would just scream that at us at the platoon wherever we had to be somewhere on the base, you know, if you're five minutes early or late, and if you're on time, you're going to be in a world of hurt. And that's the way we approached everything in life, because it goes back to chapter one.

basic personal courtesy. First of all, and you made the point and it's a good one, the anxiety if you are constantly late because if you're early, you're prepared. You get to, you know, you get a view the landscape of what's going to happen. You're not in this anxiety, this panic mode, and you're just comfortable going in and particularly for a kid who's six years old, you know, or eight years old. It's also

the personal courtesy is and extends throughout a kid's life and certainly an adult's life. I can't tell you when I'm, you know, in my professional work, when I start a meeting and people aren't there on time, because they're telling me their time is more important than mine. No, it's not. And...

Robert (20:37)
Your husband crazy.

Exactly, exactly.

It's so, so true, you know, and I've, I really, five, five minutes early, you're late. That is so true. Cause I try to get my kids there 10, 15 minutes early. A lot of times dad, but the game doesn't start until two. Why do we have to leave now? And you know, and I go through it. Okay. So like, let's say basketball for instance. Well, gives you time to get there. Put your shoes on.

You know, you can start working on your handles, you know, dribbling a little bit. You maybe get there shooting, other people will be there instead of you. You get to warm up before the others and you get a little bit more warmup time. Plus you're not rushing out there, seeing all the kids that are already out there and you know, having to get in, getting the layup line when they're already doing it. And two, it's a personal courtesy, courtesy for the coaches. I mean, look, I've coached my kids in numerous sports as they were growing up.

Jeff Nelligan (21:29)
yeah. I know.

yeah. yeah.

Robert (21:43)
And the kids that always running in late or and wanting to, you're wondering one is the kid gonna be here to adjust the lineup? And then they come in and shirts untucked if it's on and if it's even on and it's, you just see it, you see it all the way around. The kids not focused at the beginning of the game. So it takes a while for them to get into it. But yeah, that was a huge one.

Jeff Nelligan (22:00)
Yeah.

Right. Yes.

Robert (22:11)
I want to jump into good kids. I love how you described jackass kids to the two versions of jackass kids. I mean, so accurate with both, but the good kids and I actually went through these with my son over the weekend, both of my sons over the weekend, the good kids, reliable personal conduct, confident worldview, grinding resilience and adversity.

Jeff Nelligan (22:17)
yeah.

Robert (22:36)
expansive ambition sets goals and holds themselves accountable. Love it.

Jeff Nelligan (22:43)
Yeah, that's the foundation of the book. And again, if you teach your kid or kids early, you know, at that age of four or five, that muscle memory kicks in that that's the way they do things. They do show up, you know, five minutes early. They do, you know, greet an adult with a handshake, look in them in the eyes. They gather in all the things that are right.

And they do it reflexively because that's the only way they know how. And so your kid may not be a star at anything, but at least he's got that personal character to, you know, whether, whether get and get through all the tough things that, you know, invariably are going to happen to him.

Robert (23:31)
Yeah, yeah. And I love, I really love the setting goals and holding themselves accountable. I really do. And, you know, as parents, we can help them with that. So say they don't make a team. Okay. Why didn't you make it? Why didn't you make the team? Okay. Well, I don't know. Maybe I'm too slow. You know, my footwork's not right. My, you know, I don't have the strength. What, you know, there's a lot of things you maybe can't overcome height or whatever it may be, but there's a lot of things they can work on.

Jeff Nelligan (23:37)
Yeah.

Robert (24:00)
that's something they really want to and baby step it, not, okay, you've got to run a four, four and right now you're a five, two, baby step it. Okay, how can we work on those things to get to that point? And really breaking it down a week by week, day by day to get to those goals. But I absolutely love that and that's something that.

Jeff Nelligan (24:05)
yeah.

Robert (24:28)
I'm certainly sticking to the side to continue to monitor and hate to say judge my kids, but use that kind of as a compass as well.

Jeff Nelligan (24:37)
I love, listen, I love that word judge. Because if you don't judge, how are they, how is a kid or even a peer, a colleague ever going to know when they're good or bad? I mean, I, I, that whole book is built on judgment, you know, showing the right things that people do, showing the incorrect things that people do like the jackass kid, you know, I once had my middle kid, we were driving somewhere once he was about nine years old.

And we were just talking about things, school and athletics and friends and getting better. And he said at one point, he says, you know, dad, good is not good enough. And I'm looking at him in the car, I'm going, where the hell did that come from? I said, you know, that's like a 35 year old man sitting here. He says, no, because once, it just isn't because everyone's good where I am in my school and on my teams, that's not good enough.

It goes, also goes back to you said baby steps, you know, I always used to tell my kids, man, just move the chains, you know, two yards a day. You know, you don't need some long bomb rainbow into the end zone. That's never going to happen. Just, just grind it and you'll get there. And it may not be a glamorous or exciting, but that, that effort on that daily basis will get you where you want to be.

Robert (25:47)
Right.

Yeah, it's funny and I think with kids it's my oldest is extremely competitive. He's also into lifting weights because he plays football and wrestling. And he's an upcoming sophomore and he was squatted. Yeah, he squatted. I think it was 380 the other day. And yeah, it is. I mean, he's really strong. But he also he's made a lot of sacrifices, right? I mean, he's very diligent.

Jeff Nelligan (26:16)
Wow.

That's amazing.

Robert (26:29)
And so his goal for the end of his senior year is to squat 500 and he had just squatted 380 and he was so, he was so like just kind of down on his, on himself. And I said, do you realize you have three more years of high school? You're 120, you're 120 pounds away from getting your goal, which you set, you know, a year ago.

Jeff Nelligan (26:36)
Peace!

Yes!

Robert (26:58)
You're only 120 pounds away from that over three years. That's 40 pounds a year. You're telling me you can't do that. And so then we started, then we started breaking it down per month. What would that look like? And I'm like, you know, it's, and he's like, okay. I feel, I feel better about that now, but you know, I think it takes us as parents too, to that's great set goals, but let's show them how they can baby step it and how they can get there too and how they can achieve that.

Jeff Nelligan (27:14)
Great.

you go, you're breaking it down month over month. And you know that moving the chains thing. I mean, I'll just tell you on a personal note, 380 is amazing. Let me tell you, because my kid, the youngest, the West Point guy, squats 510. Okay. And he's 24 years old and he weighs 238 pounds and 510 is the most of anyone on his professional rugby team.

Robert (27:30)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff Nelligan (27:58)
So 380 for a kid who's a freaking 10th grader, that's amazing.

Robert (27:58)
Yeah, it's...

Yeah, about about to be a 10th grader. I mean, he's he's I'm a little over six. He's at least an inch or two or probably inch taller than me. And but again, he's very, very dedicated. He is. That's what it takes. That's what it takes.

Jeff Nelligan (28:06)
Not to be, right.

And that's what it takes. And I'm a dad that has older kids maybe, perhaps, and dads listen to this show. But let me tell you, I remember my kid in seventh grade and then I remember in 10th grade, okay? And I keep all, I have these massive scrapbooks that I kept, not on the phone or in some cloud, they were just paper and they're in binders. And every Christmas, I...

update them to give to each kid. But I had a picture of my kid squatting in eighth grade, you know, maybe 180 pounds or something, nothing. And now I have a picture of him as pro doing the 5 '10 in the weight room at the rugby club. But the idea is that's what parents can look forward to. They can see that progression because here he is in eighth grade.

And here he is at age 24 and he got there just day to day to day. And, but again, you know, we are using the athletic metaphor. It can be in anything, anything that they undertake.

Robert (29:27)
It can be, it can be and mine started, you know, during, we will go into this further. I want to go into it a little bit, but we started during COVID. I had recently gotten, recently turned half the garage into a gym for them and you know, weight sets and everything else from, you know, 10 pound dumbbells to 50 pound dumbbells and you know, weight bench, everything else. And that was their,

Jeff Nelligan (29:37)
Yeah.

Wow.

Robert (29:56)
one of their Christmas presents and just so happened, you know, then COVID hit, but we'll go in, we'll go in. So they've really, both of them have really, my oldest son more so, but have really stuck with that and have made it. Look, and I would rather them do that than be on their screen. I love it when they're like, we're sitting there talking or whatever, and, or we're leaving, you know, going somewhere, having, come back from having lunch and they're, dad, what time do you want to go to the gym?

Jeff Nelligan (30:14)
yeah.

Robert (30:25)
I love it, you know, even days when I don't have the energy. I love it. And I think it's, I think it's so healthy for him. Hey, I want to go back to Jack ass kids. You said there's two versions of them. Share, share with us.

Jeff Nelligan (30:38)
yeah. Well, the first one, the first jackass kid is like the one I bring up in the book. You know, we were at a game for my middle kid again, and we were walking afterwards and my kid's got all his gear. He's holding his bag and he's holding his helmet and his stick. And we look over and there's a trio. A mom's holding the helmet, a dad's holding the equipment bag, and the kid is 10 feet away.

in front of him texting furiously on his phone holding nothing. And I was around my kids and some other parents and kids and I said, don't ever be like that jackass. And everyone starts laughing, you know, and I'm not even sure they heard me or not, but the whole thing was just so poignant and so beautiful in exactly what you don't want your kid to be. And so that's that one, that self -obsessed crazy man, you know, that just

The world exists only for him. And the second type is the type that I use, you know, I mentioned in the book, I had a, as a basketball coach. The second kid is the kid that just is constantly, constantly trying to get attention and, or oblivious to any kind of social norms there are. And that means with guys, they can be mean to other guys with girls. my gosh, it's just meanness to girls, you know, which seems.

more emblematic than it is in the boy realm. And a kid that just came to my basketball practice and was running around and wouldn't stay in the layup lines and then would shoot from 20 feet out, 30 feet out, and would just break away from the whole team and run down to the other end of the court. And me and my coach, I said, this has got to stop. So I went up to the dad.

the kid's dad and I said, Hey, you know, Hey, Pat, he's off the team. And he said, you know, he can be a little mischievous. And I said, he's not mischievous, man. He's an asshole and he's off the team. And he said, you can't do that. And I said, I just did. Because every time that parent had been, that dad had been confronted with this kid being this kind of bad guy.

He'd always enabled them. Again, we go back to the snowplow. He'd always, well, the excuse factor. But not with me, because that behavior was upsetting 13 other kids who really wanted to learn how to play the game. So those are the two, the self -obsessed and then the out of control maniac. There may be others, but those are the two that I encountered.

Robert (33:24)
It's no, and that's so true. You know, reading through that and thinking about kids that I've come across, whether it's through coaching or whatever it may be. And man, that is so, so accurate. And you look at them like it all goes back to parenting, but you look at the kid, you're like, gosh, you are on such a bad road

Jeff Nelligan (33:44)
you said at the beginning the parenting and that parents have to step up and because this is a dad program, dads have to step up and they have to get engaged and that means they have to turn turn their entire life over and say what what am I doing wrong and what can I do right?

Robert (34:02)
And, and, you know, I've said this numerous times and it's, you can be a father and not be their biological father. I mean, you know, there's a lot of kids out there that need those male role models in their lives. And whether that's through coaching, whether that's through, you know, volunteering through scouting, whatever it may be. I mean, especially male, males and females.

Jeff Nelligan (34:21)
Mm -hmm.

Robert (34:31)
Boys and girls, they need that masculine role model in their life. They need that. And I would like to challenge everybody to do that, whether it's just volunteering to coach kids at the local rec, whatever it may be. I mean, it's a huge, you can have a huge impact on a kid of what's right, what's wrong, expectations, manners, all those things. Shaking hands, you know.

Jeff Nelligan (34:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Robert (35:01)
looking people in the eye, all these little things that can have a huge impact on these kids later on in life. Hey, let's talk about COVID. And what impact do you think that had on kids?

Jeff Nelligan (35:13)
Sure.

Well, let me preface this by saying in all the time, in all the years I've been a dad and a parent, and with the quarter century of being a dad, I think you, Robert, put it best. Because we were talking about COVID earlier and you said, when COVID hit, and I wrote it down, and I'm going to read it.

because it was one of the most profound things I've heard. You said when COVID hit and the lockdowns ensued and the quarantine and the panic, you said, you talked to your sons and you said, here is our chance to break away from the pack. And I'll tell you, man, I've been thinking about that, that statement of yours ever since you said it. And it comes to me now that this is what,

a dad should be saying to their kid every freaking day of their life. How do we break away from the pack? And so that just was, you know, just a marvelous way to put it in a single sentence in terms of. Go ahead.

Robert (36:27)
You know, Jeff, I looked at that as kind of a generational opportunity for them. And I looked at their friends and they were with me and I'm like, well, what's this kid, what's such and such doing today? And what's he doing? And what's he doing? he's on the screen or whoever wants us to get on the, you know, get on the X -Box and play Madden in a little bit or, you know, what are they doing? You know, and everybody was just.

When they close the schools, it's like kids are all on the screens. I'm like, no, we're not doing that. This is, and I told them, I said, I did say that. I said, this is a generational opportunity. This will never come around again. Hopefully where you can separate yourself from the pack and you are going to get better at sports. We're going to make you faster. We're going to make you stronger. We're also going to make you smarter. You're not going to take this time, even though y 'all kind of have schoolwork, you know,

Jeff Nelligan (36:58)
Yeah, right.

Yeah. man.

Robert (37:24)
kind of do, you know, you're going to continue to read, you're going to work on math, we're going to do these things, because it's going to put a lot of kids behind. And you're not going to be one of those, you're going to use this as a springboard. And they did. And honestly, they have I mean, look, they're hate to brag, they're are there, they're, you know, honors and accelerated classes, you know, I think the lowest final grade between

Both of them, I think was like a 95 But we did. We worked on those things. And it's...

and develop those habits during that time. And I told him, I said, look, you're not going to be working on your thumbs, you know, playing these little games, getting better. We're not doing that. You know, no, no, maybe at the end of the day, after we've done all these things, yeah, you can reward yourself then, but that's not going to be where you wake up and you're automatically on the screens. But man, Jeff, I just think it had such an impact on the kids in so many negative ways.

Jeff Nelligan (38:08)
You're right.

Yes, and you know, we go right, I mean, I wrote a book about it called, you know, your kids rebound from pandemic lockdowns, a parent guide to restoring your family. Because early on, like you, I saw because I've been dealing with kids forever, that, my goodness, you take kids out of that social situation where there's competition. And, you know, the idea of being around friends and being pushed and they're going to

they're going to dissolve and they did. And the first thing was you just brought it up, man, the thumb exercises, all they did was spend time on screens. You know, the numbers are there. I gave you the eight hours, 47 that accelerated during COVID. It was the mental health problems, you know, that lack of confidence because they weren't in situations around other people. So their personal development just sagged.

And then of course, you know, the physical deterioration. I mean, today, Robert, we have 19 .8 % of the kids below the ages of 18 are obese or overweight. That's one out of five kids under 19 are obese or overweight. And let me tell you, that doesn't go away. 80 % of people who are obese at the age of 18 are obese at the age of 40. So,

What you've got is this massive physical deterioration, the mental, and then that social deterioration about confidence and being pleased, being comfortable around other people. Like your lady in the ice cream shop saying, my son wants a job. Because he's had three years of sitting on his fanny, not being able to interact with his peers.

Robert (40:18)
Yeah, no, it's, it's true. I think the interpersonal skills, the, the social skills, the physical, you know, physical fitness, that's what kills me. You know, when the boys will go and have a checkup and they're like, but dad, I'm in the lower percentile of weight might look at you. You take your shirt off. Look at you. You you're not skinny.

Jeff Nelligan (40:31)
gosh.

Robert (40:43)
You're in great shape. It's because those numbers are skewed because there's so many fat kids now. I hate to say that, but there are because they just don't.

Jeff Nelligan (40:49)
I know, and it's a tough subject to bring up with parents, you know? But hey, man, again, it's the band aid. You know, rip it off. Hey, you're just...

Robert (40:58)
It's on, it's on again. It's on us. It's on us. And you know, it kills me too. I mean, don't you remember maybe, I don't know if you guys did, but growing up we used to have, I think it was called the presidential physical fitness test. Do you remember that you had to do pull -ups, push -ups, sit -ups, all those things. it was a huge deal.

Jeff Nelligan (41:11)
Physical fitness test. Yeah. Remember, it was a big deal. I mean, I still have in my own scrapbooks the patches I wore and that I could put on my trunks in gym in eighth grade. And it was really rigorous. Yeah, presidential physical fitness test.

Robert (41:27)
Yeah. I don't even.

Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just remember that. I don't even think they do that anymore. You know, I don't, I don't even think that's, that's part of it anymore. I don't think they care. And, probably too afraid. They're going to offend somebody, you know, by, by doing that. I know, I know we're kind of pressed for time and going to get into the end, but your questions that you, again, there's so much great advice in here.

Jeff Nelligan (41:39)
gosh.

yeah.

Robert (41:56)
but the questions you have in here for the kids that, you know, conversations with that parents have with their kids, you know, you always hear questions like, how, you know, how was your day or what was the best part of your day? Or, you know, I love the way, you know, some of them were who's the nicest kid out of your friend group. Who's the biggest asshole? What are the reasons behind that? And I,

Jeff Nelligan (42:23)
Yeah.

Robert (42:25)
I actually, over the weekend when I was with the boys, we were driving up to the mountains and up to the lake and I asked them those questions and it was really interesting to hear what their thoughts were when we went deeper and dug into it. But you have so many good questions in there.

Thought provoking questions for the kids and different exercises you did with, you know, asking the kids in the grocery store how many people were wearing a college sweatshirt or whatever it may be, making them aware of their surroundings. I think this is just, you know, I know this was probably written more towards dads because you are a dad. I think it's a great parent book, period.

Jeff Nelligan (43:11)
Yeah, I think having those conversations with kids like you were illustrating earlier when you were at the lake, that part of the parent engagement, part of the dad engagement and mom is that you have to really know your kid and you only know your kid if you talk to them. And you only can talk to them in an area, in a situation in which you have their full undivided attention.

You know, I mentioned in the book, there was a routine that I took each kid individually every week to the most peaceful place on planet Earth, which is a high school bleachers early on a Saturday morning overlooking fields. And we'd sit there and, you know, maybe we'd bring them out a donut or something, but we'd sit there and I'd say, OK, tell me about your week. And the old man will tell you about his week. You know, what was up, what was down, you know, what?

What didn't you do? What was your biggest success? What was your failure? And I'll tell you mine. And every kid knew, it's Saturday at 730 in the morning, get in the car, we're going down to the high school and we're going to sit there and chat for an hour. And there's no, well, you know, I can't do it, Dad, or I don't really, you know, that's all Dad, or I have nothing more to say. It was no, we're talking and we're...

We're going to spend this hour this way. And then it just wasn't a one -off deal. I had a kid come back from a deployment in the Mediterranean, the Persian Gulf, and the North Atlantic on a guided missile destroyer. He was the chief engineer. And he comes back after being gone for a year. And where do we go on Saturday morning? We go to the bleachers.

So the same kid that I had done that at four years old, he's sitting there at age 26 and we're sprawled across the bleachers. And I'm going, well, tell me, man, you know, what's been going, what's going on in the, in the Strait of Hormuz? Tell me baby, you know, what's going on in the Persian Gulf? And then I, you know, but that's what I'm saying. That sustainability of that engagement is essential because that gets the kids revved up.

to hear and to talk about the things that are most important to them.

Robert (45:38)
I totally agree. And you know, the thing that I loved about it, going back to, you know, who's the nicest kid, who's the funniest kid, who is, you know, the biggest asshole of the kids, you know, and having them dig into why it would come back to parenting or lack of or fatherlessness. And at the same time, they're able to figure out what they want to be like.

Jeff Nelligan (46:00)
Yeah.

Robert (46:08)
And what it's going to take for them when they're in that role so they don't have a kid like that. And I think that that was really what I got from that and hopefully will continue to. Yeah, that will continue to impact them later on in life.

Jeff Nelligan (46:15)
Right.