How to Become a Loving Father with Kenny Vaughan

John Kennedy Vaughan of Shields of Strength, shares his journey of understanding love and its profound impact on his life and relationships. He discusses the importance of selflessness in fatherhood, the challenges modern fathers face, and the necessity of discipline in parenting. Kenny emphasizes that love is not just a feeling but a commitment to act in the best interest of others, particularly in the context of family. He also highlights the significance of faith in overcoming fear and the transformative power of love in shaping our lives and relationships.

Takeaways

• Understanding how love radically changes life.
• Fear can disqualify all preparation and clarity of thought.
• A loving father prioritizes his family's needs above his own.
• Discipline is necessary for a child's well-being.
• Love is not just a feeling; it's a commitment to act.
• The why behind our actions determines their impact.
• Gentleness in parenting should not come at the cost of discipline.
• A strong man is humble and selfless.
• Children need to know they are loved despite their actions.
• Jesus embodies the true essence of love. 

Transcript

Robert (00:01)
John Kennedy Vaughn. Welcome to the podcast Kenny.

Kenny Vaughan (00:04)
Thank you.

Robert (00:06)
Man, I tell you what, I started following you, it might've been during COVID. I started following your Instagram page, Shields of Strength. I think it was somewhere around COVID. when we ended up getting connected, mean, it was an honor to have you come on here, man. I really appreciate you coming on.

Kenny Vaughan (00:27)
Thank you. I appreciate it. thanks for hanging around. I run a lot of people off. I don't want to, I'm not trying to, but thanks for listening.

Robert (00:38)
Hey, so sometimes when you speak the truth, does, right? People don't like to hear it and, that.

Kenny Vaughan (00:41)
Yeah, right. I mean, you try

to say as kindly as you can, you know, but, you know, if you love people, you gotta live with that, you know? So.

Robert (00:51)
And

that is your message too, is loving. mean, that just continues to come through in your messages. Love, love, love, love, love. And I think it's beautiful, but man, I appreciate you coming on. I want to know about you. I know a little bit about you from your page. Can you kind of give me your history, your background?

Kenny Vaughan (01:01)
Thank you.

So, wow, that's a big question. But a Cliff Notes version would just be, well, I'm married to my wife Tammy. We've been married 27 or 28 years. We have three children, Faith, Grace, and Kennedy. Two girls and a boy Faith is the oldest and Grace in the middle and Kennedy's the youngest. They're the vast majority of my life and I'm grateful for that.

Before that, was, mean, the way I ended up stumbling into, you know, I wrote this book called The Right Fight, How to Live a Loving Life, got the social media channel, we got a podcast on it. But I've been doing that for a few years. But I really, as you mentioned, I just have one subject, and there's really just one word, and that's love. Trying to understand it. And then trying to share the truth about what love really is, because

Nothing's radically changed my life more than understanding what love was. It really changed the way I saw everything. It's taken monkeys off my back that I carried that I didn't need to be carrying. I could go on forever about that. And the way I got in it, and we'll talk about some of that. But that all evolved from, I was an athlete. I was a long distance water ski jumper, trying to win a national championship. I was afraid of failing. I've been chasing this dream for

Robert (02:27)
That's what I'm-

Kenny Vaughan (02:33)
you know, decade or more, worked with the best coaches in the world who helped me become a better ski jumper, but never could help me overcome my fear. And my girlfriend of all things started writing scriptures on my equipment. Like God hasn't given me the spirit of fear, but a power of love and a sound mind. I could do all things through Christ, strengthens me. And I didn't, I'd never heard any of the scripture at the time. But long story short, I went from.

Knowing that and thinking that was encouraging to see, to memorizing it, I didn't really have to look at my gear anymore, but it being on my gear, my equipment was good because it would remind me in the midst of my fear of, am I gonna fail again? Right now is the moment and having that reminder was inspiring. Eventually, I would say it went from my head to my heart where I believed it.

But even believing it wasn't enough to help me overcome my fear. And then finally had to learn to act on God's word, despite what I felt. You know, it didn't matter how afraid I felt. I had to choose to trust God's word more than I trusted my fear. And doing that, you know, I ended up in this, I had crashed on, we get three jumps in a competition in ski jumping, long jumps, about three quarters the length of a football field. We rise about three stories, we're going 70 miles an hour. And

Robert (03:54)
Jeez.

Kenny Vaughan (03:56)
So it's really stupid. I mean, I still want to do it. I jump every now and then still today, but like, this is the craziest thing. Like, why did I ever do this? But it was a lot of fun. I got hurt a lot, but in it, had.

Robert (04:12)
Yeah. mean, water

at that, you know, everybody thinks water soft, but water at that height than at that speed. It's not. Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (04:17)
Well, it is. Right. Right. You bounce. Yeah.

Yeah. I tell people, people like, man, what's it like to crash? I'm like, well, best, best way to find out be if you like, if you drive over an overpass about three stories at like 70 miles an hour and just bail out of the window, you know, and you probably need to strap a couple of two-by-sixes on your feet because you got these skis that are going to be tangled up with you. So it's, it's, it's, it's pretty wild, but

In a competition, we had three jumps. Longest jump wins. I had crashed on my second jump. I had tore up some of my gear. I had one jump left. I had three minutes to repair my gear and I couldn't repair it in the three minutes. I could only repair some of it. My ski, my boot on my ski was busted. So it was a time that I was gonna, all my life, I had never been in a situation that would have caused this much fear. I was always terrified without messed up gear.

And now I was in the worst situation ever and I saw those scriptures and then I just made a decision to trust God's word and to finish for him whether I won or not. And when I did...

And that's another story of me itself. But basically I jumped further than I ever jumped in my life on my last jump. With the busted gear, the worst circumstances that I've ever been in, time I'd have been more afraid than ever and then insanely I wasn't afraid. And my dream comes true. I won the nationals. And so I go home and I'm like, what happened? Like I'm trying to process this. mean, I'm pumped, you know, I won, but I'm really trying to sort out.

Robert (05:43)
Really?

Kenny Vaughan (05:57)
How did I, like what happened? Like how, I really didn't understand it. I knew the decisions I made, but I didn't understand how at a time I'd have been like, just like I knew everything that I knew about my sport. Like the one thing I knew everything about, I knew there was no way. And so, but yet I trusted God's word and the act of God's word and I wasn't even afraid for the first time. And so I'm trying to sort that out.

Robert (06:26)
You weren't afraid

you weren't afraid before that final jump at all? Wow.

Kenny Vaughan (06:30)
Right. So

this is like, this is like the, can't even describe to you, this has been the time I'd have been twice as afraid, two or three times as more afraid than I'd ever been in my life. And I wasn't afraid at all. And that

Robert (06:49)
No anxiety,

no hesitation, none of that. just, wow, just that inner peace.

Kenny Vaughan (06:52)
Right, that's right. Like the power

of loving a sound mind, know, scripture tells you, you can't give a spirit fear about a power of loving a sound mind. So I always wanted that, but nothing I did, like it didn't matter how much I quoted these scriptures. I'm not saying scripture doesn't matter, and that's not what I'm saying at all. But I'm just saying that speaking those scriptures, though that's important, that wasn't what led to me becoming unafraid.

It was making a decision to trust God's word. And this is what I had to sort out. Okay, I just want to make this clear. I didn't understand this in the moment, but as I'm driving home and coming home and for the weeks following, I'm trying to sort out because in my mind I'm thinking, I want to win next year too. So I got to solve this equation so that I know how to be, I don't want to.

If I don't know why I was unafraid, I'm not going to be able to repeat it. I'm going to be afraid next time. That's just a fluke, you know? And so I'm trying to sort out what led to me being unafraid, finally. And so, but yeah, the answer to the question was I really was. Like I really had power of my sound really had, the problem with my fear was it is I no longer had a sound mind, meaning that I didn't have clarity of thought. So when I was overwhelmed with fear, if anything went wrong at all,

Robert (07:53)
Right.

Kenny Vaughan (08:20)
I didn't have the, even though I trained my whole life to know exactly what to do if this happened. I had prepared for everything. But when you're afraid, it doesn't matter how much preparation you have. It disqualifies it all because you don't have clarity of thought. And so now I had the most to be afraid of, but I had absolute clarity of thought. And even making decisions that I had never in my life prepared for.

Robert (08:32)
True, true.

Kenny Vaughan (08:49)
busted boot. mean the solution to a busted boot is a forfeit like you don't you know because you're gonna get hurt but I had the clarity of thought like like we got we make our turn to go to the ramp we got three seconds from the time we finished our turn to till we hit the ramp we go from 15 to 70 miles an hour and those three seconds it's like being shot out of a cannon you know so but in that moment where it's normally just autopilot hold on and hope something good happens

Robert (08:53)
Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (09:17)
I had the clarity of thought to consider that my boot was busted on the inside edge and that if I would slam my foot into the outside edge of the boot, it might be tight.

And it chokes me up just thinking about it, man. And so I'm like, who am I? I'm like, how did that happen? And when I stuffed it in that front right corner and it's just like split second stuff, it was tight. And that was it. I was done with that. And now I was back to focus on things that I knew to do. And I made adjustments all the way in that I trained my whole life to do. So yeah. So I had that clarity of thought. It worked. And I'm trying to sort that out and in sorting that out.

Robert (09:36)
You

Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (09:59)
The things that I realized was that the decisions that I made that I felt like were critical. One was my whole life. I like, prayed every night on my knees next to my bed for a decade. Yeah. Yeah. 10 years. I'll say my whole life, but like all my, all my life at that point and chasing this dream was that I would win the U S nationals and then I would get the gold medal.

Robert (10:14)
your whole your whole well your whole life you had. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (10:28)
Like that everything was to win and that was what it was all about. whenever, and I was forever afraid, but when that boot was busted and I couldn't handle the fear anymore and I really didn't think I could win anymore. Like there was no way I believed I could win with the busted boot. I couldn't jump further than I ever jumped. I was going to have to jump further than ever jumped in my life. And I'm like, there's no way it's going to happen with the busted boot.

So I kind of gave up and I just said, know what, nevermind the gold medal, Lord, I just want to do the best I can for you. And when I made that decision, it was no longer about me and it was no longer about winning. And I realized that when I thought of Christ on the cross, that was a higher calling with no chance of failing. It didn't mean I would win, but it did mean that I could finish for him.

And so that's what gave me the courage to not just quit. Cause I was like, you know what? I can still do the best I can for the Lord. And then I chose to act on God's word. And so, and then I came across the scripture. We all know it. It says that there is no fear in love because perfect love drives out fear. And that kind of came out of nowhere. Tam didn't write that scripture on my equipment. But when I started digging into that, cause I'm like, what does love have to do with fear? I don't understand that.

I don't even know how they're related at all. Like I don't even see any, any similarities. didn't get it at all. And so I started digging into that. And then I started digging into, you know, trying to understand God's word. This is I was first diving in and, I started looking for the, what I learned as an athlete was that I had to look to like the very basic things first, like the best coaches in the world, the U S team coach. The one thing I'll never forget about them was they were like, Hey, the first thing we want to see is like,

almost like how do you put your gear on? I'm like, everybody knows how to get dressed. You know what mean? I'm not that bad, you know? But they're like, no, if you put this stuff on wrong, it's not gonna work right. And so they went to, you can imagine if it was in golf or baseball or anything else, a great coach, before he sees your swing, he wants to see how you pick up the bat, he wants to see how you hold the bat. Because if you don't hold the bat right, you're not gonna be able to swing. I don't care how much training you do, as long as you're holding it.

and properly, you're not gonna be able to swing it properly. And so that's what I learned from these great coaches in skiing and taking me back to the basics. So when I got into God's word, I'm going, what is the one thing that if I don't get right, it's gonna derail everything else? And it seemed to be love. Cause you got Jesus saying, hey, you can do all these things, but if you have not love, you gain nothing. Or saying that this commandment fulfills all the prophets and all of the commandments, love. So then I asked myself, what is love?

And man, I had no idea. I mean, I knew what it felt like. I knew what I thought it was. And so that led me into this dive into what is love? That was 20 years ago now. And I thought it would be a few weeks and I'd sort it out and move on from there. But it's the only thing I focus on the whole time because it's like an onion. Just like every layer you peel off, there's another layer.

And it just leads to more and more more truth and it's like life changing, you know, so maybe more you want to know, but that's kind of my, that's, that's me and my life story and how it led into this.

Robert (13:55)
No, no, that's, that's beautiful.

And I appreciate you sharing that. You know, when you were saying that about, they wanted to see how you put on your gear and you know, how you start off, kind of reminds me of a conversation I had not too long ago with somebody and everything was horrible. Everything's, you know, they just have a lot going on. And for some reason it came to my head. Like, how do you start your day?

Like, how do you start your day? mean, look, I have bad days too. mean, I definitely do. go, you know, everybody goes through peaks and valleys, but I had, while they, while they do have a fairly strong faith at that time, you know, I had suggested that they, you know, start your day in scripture, you know, literally you get out of bed, you know, are still in bed, you know,

Thank God for giving you another day and start your day with scripture, with scripture, know, end it, start it, speak throughout. But, and, and I had told them that, you know, I truly, while I've always, you know, was raised in a Christian home and, you know, said my prayers, went to church when the doors were open and all that. It really just a few years back, I really started dig it, going into that and making that a habit.

of every day doing that, starting off with a prayer, starting off with scripture, starting off in, in man, just, it doesn't make every day perfect. You know, it definitely doesn't, but it certainly, helps prepare me for that, for that day and starts me off on the best, on the best foot. And when you were saying that with, and that's what I was saying when you were saying that with the, you know, putting on your gear, let me see how you put that on. It's kind of let me see how you start your day. You know,

Kenny Vaughan (15:50)
Right, because if you start off on a weak foundation, it doesn't matter how, like the higher you build the ladder, the harder it's gonna fall. And ultimately, spiritually, I believe it comes down to what we believe. It literally comes down to what we believe. Like we think what we think, we feel what we feel, and then we do what we do.

all because we believe what we believe. And most of time what we believe is not true. So if what we believe is not true, we build and then we think and we feel and we do based on a lie. And we wonder why it doesn't work and why our lives are ravaged. so, but God's word is the truth. So when you start with prayer and you start with scripture, then it's like my wife, when she would write that scripture on my equipment.

Robert (16:24)
That's,

Kenny Vaughan (16:44)
You know, it's like I'm starting with the truth. I have all of these feelings and I still have them. But what I've learned is that I don't need to trust my feelings. I don't need to ignore them. I need to pay attention, but I'm not gonna follow my feelings. I'm gonna follow the truth. But if you don't have any truth, it's like, it's great to have a compass on your boat, but if it's in a bag and up in the bow, it's no good to you. You know what mean? It needs to be sitting right there front and center on your console.

Robert (17:09)
No good to you.

Kenny Vaughan (17:14)
right in front of the steering wheel, because you feel like, know, especially if it gets foggy, it's like, I know I'm running a straight line, but no you're not, you're running circles. But if you got the sitting there and you're looking at it, you're like, wow, I know I'm not going a straight line, but the compass is telling me I'm going straight, who am I gonna trust? Well, I know the compass isn't lying you know? And so that's the power of starting the day with God's word. And not just starting it, like it's like all day long for me.

Robert (17:22)
Yeah, yeah.

Yes, it is.

Well, man, I appreciate what you're doing. And look, again, I appreciate you coming on. you had reached out and talking about fatherhood and what a loving father looks like. And that's something that I had been wanting to cover on here. I even told you, you were kind of on my, if you want to call it wish list, dream list, whatever, of having somebody on here eventually. And when you brought that up, it's like,

Yeah, I would love to have you on. I can't think of a better person as to what does a loving father look like? I mean, I'm a dad. I feel like I love. There's a lot of challenges day in and day out that you're faced with. But I just kind of want to hear it from you. What is a loving father?

Kenny Vaughan (18:36)
Selfless, I think. the problem with, I think the problem with the word selfless is that it's misunderstood. That doesn't mean that you don't take care of yourself. You know, because, you know, it's not whether you take care of yourself or not. Sometimes you don't take care of yourself. Sometimes you do take care of yourself.

But it's not whether or you take care of yourself, it's why you take care of yourself that determines, I think, whether or not you're a loving father or a loving person, period. mean, it's just, line is, are you a loving person or not? And none of us are perfectly loving. I should be very clear about that. I probably fell more than anyone. But that is our desire and that is our goal. And then we have the courage to repent, to say we're sorry when we're

But that if we're, to the extent we're taking care of ourselves, it's so that we can take care of our family. So a lot of people tell you, need to be selfish enough to be selfless. But I would just say, if you're taking care of yourself, which they say that would be selfish enough to be selfless, if you're taking care of yourself so that, so it's really about the why, not the what. Love is a why, it's not a what. So there's all kinds of things we can do that can be that,

appear loving but they're not loving at all or they may even appear selfish but they're actually very loving. it's not, know, love is kind but kindness is not always love. I can be kind to get what I want, to manipulate you, to play games, you know, that's like the worst kind of selfishness. Love is always kind but kindness is not always love. So what makes the difference? Why we're doing it. So I think a loving father, I'm not saying that

It's just total, it is total self abandonment and self denial. Like my life is not about me. It's not supposed to be about me. It wasn't intended to be about me. My purpose is not about me. My purpose is about God and others. And the first others are my own family. And so, so it's putting your family first. Even if sometimes you need to take care of yourself so that you can put your family stuff.

If you take care of yourself so you can love your family, that's not self-love, that's actually love. Self-love is taking care of yourself without regard for your family.

Robert (20:57)
Absolutely.

Yeah. And that taking care of yourself, give me some examples, but you know, I'm thinking about health. I'm thinking about financially. I'm thinking about spiritually. I mean, what, what else like comes to mind?

Kenny Vaughan (21:08)
That's selfishness.

Yeah, and I say that because that's the biggest pushback I get most of the time. It's like, well, you can't love anyone else unless you love yourself. I'm like, no, if you love yourself, you can't love anyone else. Because who you're loving determines who is first in your life. so taking care of yourself, I mean, I don't know, for me, it would be, know, if things, if it's been a rough couple of weeks and a lot of things are going on or whatever, I mean, I just enjoy.

going fishing, you know, I love to fish. you know, I'm, I'm, I might, now I'm not going to skip out on my family, but if nothing's going on this evening and I got a couple of hours and they don't, they can't, I, first of all, I'd love for them to come with me, but if they can't come with me, you know, I'm, I might just go throw bait for a couple of hours. And when I'm done with that, I just feel, I'm just, I'm good, you know? And so you could say, Hey,

that was self-ish, but it really wasn't. I mean, I'm not doing that without regard for my family. I'm doing that to reconnect to the vine with the Lord and just get a little time away. And then I'm a better dad, you know, and I'm a better husband. So that's all I mean about taking care of stuff. if taking care of my family means that I don't get to go fishing for a while, then my family comes first. And I'm not gonna be mad at them for that. But...

I would say, and I think when you talk about fathers, okay, and what a loving father looks like, I would just like to say, I think there's two like prominent pushes in the world right now that I see constantly on social media and people's lives. And one is this movement of the father should be almost passive, you know, not, not,

not speaking what he believes is the truth, but just letting his kids and his wife have their own truths and all these other, that's somehow loving, but that's really not loving at all. mean, and then the other big push is what they call alpha male movement or this masculinity movement, which I'm all for masculinity, but...

Robert (23:28)
No. No.

Kenny Vaughan (23:46)
A prideful man and the passive man are the same monster wearing a different mask. Just meaning the passive guy is passive because he's decided it's too hard to care about his family. You know, if I care about my children, then I have to correct them. If I care about my wife, then I have to tell her whenever I think that, you know, what she's doing isn't best for her. You know, it...

Robert (23:53)
There you go. I agree.

Kenny Vaughan (24:14)
And so I don't want to deal with that anymore. You know what? Y'all aren't going to respect me. Y'all don't care about me. I don't care about you. Just do what you want to do. Like, you know, I'm passive. I'm good with anything. That's your truth. That's your truth. Good. You know, I'm happy for you. So you sell it. So then you celebrate their own destruction because they're not following the truth. And then the opposite side of that same coin, I say the same monster wearing different masks is, is I'm going to, it's you're going to respect me.

I'm gonna demand that I am respected and I'm strong and I'm powerful and strong men, the last thing they're trying to make anyone, help anyone see is how strong they are. Like a strong man, the last thing on a strong man's mind is himself and how he appears to everyone else. Like, mean, unless it's so that he can have influence in their lives and speak into their lives. Like I've never met a strong man that was, you know, trying to make sure everybody knew how tough he was.

Robert (24:53)
Right. Right.

Right.

Isn't it right?

Right.

Kenny Vaughan (25:10)
You know, it's not, the last thing on your mind is himself. But both of those are fear. And this is why I think I was able to understand it, because I was so afraid for so long, I did all this stuff. You know, I was either passive, I didn't care, or I was prideful. I acted like I was tough. But the problem with when you're a ski jumper, if you come in there passive, the ramp's gonna spank your butt. It's just gonna do it. And if you come in there prideful, you think you got it. It works the first few times.

Robert (25:31)
can't. Yeah, yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (25:37)
But the next time you come in there, like it don't matter, like you're strong enough, you're big enough, you're tough enough, and something's wrong, it breaks your leg. It really doesn't care. And so you learn to get humbled. So strong men, you say, what does a strong man look like? I would say they are humble and they're selfless. And it's not what they look like on the outside, it's what they look like on the inside. So to fear, we'll see life outside in, meaning, you know.

Robert (25:58)
inside.

Kenny Vaughan (26:05)
If I look like this, if I act like this, if I behave like this, that's who I am. Well, no, no, not really. Why you look, why you act, why you behave, that reveals who you are. And so love sees, fear sees life from the outside in, love sees life, sees people from the inside out. And so a loving man, a strong man, doesn't look a certain way on the outside. He may appear weak to you, but he's not weak at all.

or he may appear like a monster, like a really strong, you know, bad guy, tough guy, and he's really not. He's the weakest man in the room. So you need to look inside out. so how do you identify that? How do you see that in men? You know, if you hang around people very long, you just start learning this. It reveals itself. The truth always reveals itself.

Robert (26:59)
Yeah, you do.

Kenny Vaughan (27:04)
And so I don't like to say go looking for signs because they can be different for everyone. But for the most part, they're not just considerate of you. And they're not just considerate of their family. They're considerate of everyone. And they truly care about other people, not just their family, they truly care, period. So if they truly care, then what does that look like? That looks like, well, if what you're doing is not really best for you, then they're willing to say something.

if assuming they have the power to speak in your life or their position to speak in your life, then they're willing to say, you know, not for their own sake, not to be right and any of that stuff, but just to say, hey, you know, you may not like me for this, but I love you. And because I love you, I don't think that's a good idea. You know, especially when it's your own family and you know, you see it everywhere they go. I mean, a lot of times you watch them walk across the parking lot. You know what mean?

Robert (27:58)
Yeah, you-

Kenny Vaughan (28:02)
And just look how they interact with anyone they come across. They try and make it like, yeah, I them.

Robert (28:06)
or their or their

offspring, their fruit.

Kenny Vaughan (28:10)
Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. You will know them by their fruit.

Robert (28:13)
You know, could see it there.

Why is, why do you find it's so challenging? Why do you feel it's so challenging for men?

Kenny Vaughan (28:24)
because they're afraid and they haven't been taught how to love. So men, I've talked to a lot of them. It's like, there's not...

Robert (28:32)
Mm-hmm.

Afraid and afraid

and afraid when you say afraid tell me like I want to know more like afraid of what?

Kenny Vaughan (28:41)
They're afraid of how they appear to other people. They're self-focused. That's the whole problem. So understand a man is just a grown up little boy. Okay, now we do have responsibility to not go on as boys when we become men and we do slowly become men, but they're just little boys that have matured.

you know, on the outside, but on the inside, they really haven't so much matured. And we're forever growing and getting better and all these things. But so, so what happens is a man for some reason, and then a lot of this is outside input, you know, that is not truth. Like, so if they really have a good loving home, a loving father and a loving mother, then they, then they struggle a lot less with this because they have an understanding of what love really is. Like they understand that

that they're not loved based on who they are. I mean, if you want to get down to the real core of what's going on here, it's like, if a man understands that he is never loved based on who he is, I know you might have to think about this, but I'll try to help you understand a bit. If he understands he's not loved because of who he is, then he will be free from a lot of these things. He understands he is loved despite who he is. In other words,

God loves you. God's love for you has nothing to do with who you are. God loves you because of who He is. He is love. And so His wrath is His love. And His grace is His love. And His mercy is His love. But you're loved, period. The problem is little boys, as they're growing up to become young men, believe

And what we believe, it all comes down to the core belief. What do we believe about love? Sets the table for all this. This is like, how do you put your gear on? How do you hold the bat? So what we believe is what sets the table for who we're gonna become. so, what most young men believe, and they believe this because they were either taught this or they experienced this. I mean, we get our beliefs either from someone teaching us something or reading it or, you know, comprehending it.

or experiencing it. And so a lot of our beliefs come from our experiences. so if our experiences aren't good, we were loved when we did good, we believed, and we weren't loved when we didn't do good. If we didn't have a really loving mom and dad, then that's kind of what we come out of there believing. Then we believe that whether or not we're loved depends on us. And so then we perform to be loved, and we love to be loved, which is not love at all.

It's selfishness. So I'm using love to get what I want or what I need. So when they get in a relationship with a woman and they get in a family and they have a wife and they have children, then they believe that if they do good, then they're loved and respected. And they tell you the man wants to be respected. Well, why does he want to be respected?

Robert (31:36)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (32:02)
That's the real core to this problem. And the reason he wants to be respected is because if he feels like he's respected, he feels like he's doing good and he feels like he's loved. So it goes back to his core belief. So then what does he do? He fights to be respected. And when you fight to be respected, first of all, the respect you get isn't real respect.

Robert (32:12)
guys, performance based. Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (32:27)
and you kill all the relationships in your life. But you feel like if you're not respected that you're not loved. And so you fight your own family to respect you so that you can feel like you're loved and you tear it all to pieces. But the whole problem is you don't understand that you're already loved and that your responsibility isn't to make sure that your wife and your children respect you.

but to love and respect your wife and your children. Whether they respect you or not. So whether you respect me or not, I'm gonna love you. So what does that look like with your children? Because I know this is counterintuitive. This is why it's hard to communicate a lot of times. This is why I've been on it for so long. It's like, this is radical life changing truth. I used to would demand that my children respect me. Why? Because you weren't gonna disrespect me.

I mean, I was going to be respected as the man of the house or whatever you want to call it. So whenever my children didn't disrespect me, I punished them and I made it clear that their responsibilities respect me. But what was, why was I doing what I was doing? And because the kids understand this and I understand this. And the reason I was doing what I was doing was so that I would be respected. And you know what it started doing? It started putting a wall between me and my children. Now, listen, I am not saying that

you don't demand that your children are respectful.

Robert (33:58)
Okay.

Kenny Vaughan (33:59)
That's an absolute must. If you love your children, they have to be respectful. But my...

Robert (34:03)
Yeah. And you have to teach

them how to be respectful as well. mean, look, when they're born there, like when I, when they're born there, we're all animals, right? I mean, you have to learn not to bite, learn not to pull hair, learn not to push, learn to share. But I do think you have to teach them how to be respect, how to be respectful in the fact of, when you were talking, I was just thinking of saying, yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Yes, sir. No, sir.

You know, showing that respect that way versus demanding it. I think then my feeling, me if I'm wrong is if you teach them how to be respectful and you act in a respectful manner, then you will get that respect. Am I off?

Kenny Vaughan (34:49)
Well, no, you're not. That's true. But the only thing I would say you have to be careful of is that you do not respect people in order to be respected. You respect them whether you're respected or not. so with my children, what I wanted them, I didn't, when I realized, hey, there's a problem with me demanding my children respect me so that I will be respected. From there, I didn't go to demanding that they were less respectful.

Robert (34:59)
Yeah, yeah, fair.

Kenny Vaughan (35:18)
I went to demand they were more respectful because the reason my children should be respectful is so that their life will be blessed.

Robert (35:29)
share, share

with share with me how you were demanding for them to respect you. Do if you don't mind, like, can you think of a example?

Kenny Vaughan (35:37)
Well, in any scenario, mean, especially when you have little children, right? You know, I they, they, I mean, they, they, they ignore you. You tell them to do something and they look at you like, I'm not about to do that. And then they go do what you tell them not to do something. They look at you like, you know, are you crazy? I'm about to do it. So then my response was, was, Hey, I got bad news. You know what I mean? Like that's you. Like, did you just look at me? Like, I think you looked at me and then I would discipline them.

And there's nothing wrong with discipline, okay? Put them in timeout, whatever it took. And I was coming at them, I was making it very clear. And then when I was done, I was telling him, let me tell you something, you're gonna respect your father. Do you understand me? You're never gonna disrespect me. But my point, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of that. The problem I had was the why, not the what. This is where everything lies, okay?

You can do that for your child's and your child will know they're loved. You can do it for your own sake and your child will know they're not loved.

So my problem was I was demanding my children respect me and this is what I was really doing. I wasn't conscious. I wasn't thinking about this before I did it. It's just what I did. And the difference is I would still do the same thing. I would say I had a shorter leash when I realized that the reason I wanted my children to be respectful was not so that I was respected, it's so that they are respectful. know, scripture tells us to honor your mother and your father.

It doesn't say honor your mother and your father, so your father is honored. It's just honor your father and your mother so that you can live a long and prosperous life. It's for the child's sake. It's not for my sake. so when my, so then what the difference was, I would still go to my, it was like, hey, I told you not to do that, you're doing it. My lease wasn't any longer. It was actually shorter because I'm like, if I let them get away this,

Robert (37:20)
Yeah, right.

Kenny Vaughan (37:45)
I'm destroying their life. They're not gonna live a long life. They're not, you know. So then I was still punishing them. I would still do everything I did. But when I was done, I would say, listen, baby, it's nothing about you respecting dad. Now, I want you to respect your mom and dad. Don't get me wrong. This is because I love you. And if you aren't disrespectful to me and mom, you're gonna be disrespectful to other people. And when you go out into life, I mean, do you know anybody that's disrespectful to you, that you like being around? I mean, life's not gonna be kind to you.

Robert (37:48)
Right.

I'd to have my bias.

Kenny Vaughan (38:15)
And I want life to be good to you. So my leash got shorter, but it was no longer about me. It was for their sake. And what happened? I could see it. I mean, it was like a major shift where they knew immediately they became more responsive. They listened and they understood. Even little bitty children understand this. they became more, they would, instead of rebelling, they would...

easier to correct. You know, so why we do what we do is what teaches people whether or not we love them. So we say we love them, but we're using them to love us. We say we respect them, but we're using them to respect us. So our responsibility is to love our family whether they love us or not. And that does mean discipline. That does mean, you know, direction. That does mean challenging them. Does that make sense?

Robert (39:11)
Makes it makes a lot of sense. And when you're saying that I'm also thinking about how you, how you treat others, how you respect others in the world, because your kids are watching that. Right. mean, they're, you're a great, you're, you're a great example of that, of how for the, for the kids. I mean, you're living how you want them to be. Hopefully you are, you know, if you're not showing respect for the person at the grocery store, whoever it may be, you know, and you're not.

Kenny Vaughan (39:22)
No, that's exactly right.

Robert (39:38)
my pet peeve, you're not putting your grocery cart up and you're just leaving it out in the middle of a, in the parking lot. that guy will come get it. You know, it's how, how you treat others is huge. think so huge. you.

Kenny Vaughan (39:53)
And because the reason it shows up everywhere is because love is something you become. Now we aren't, we'll never become perfect in love like God is, like Christ was for us, but it's something we're becoming. And if we're really becoming more like love, more like Christ, then it's truly what we believe, it's truly who we are, then it shows up everywhere, everywhere we go.

And if it's not who we're becoming, if we're just trying to act loving to get what we want, then it's all fake. And then it only shows up when we need it. And people around you figure it out. Go ahead.

Robert (40:32)
Kenny, are you familiar with the term, yeah,

are you familiar with the term gentle parenting? That whole notion, like, you know, it's basically spare, I hate to say sparing the rod, but it is, and minor corrections, and kind of ignoring, and I was just curious as to your thoughts on that. Because I know there's a big push out there, you know, in society on gentle parenting.

Kenny Vaughan (40:43)
I may not be.

Well.

Well, I may not be familiar

with it it's what it sounds like. In other words, if gentle parenting means, and I see what I would call gentle parenting a lot, and what I'm talking about is absolute abuse. Because basically what it is, it's a child who's getting away with murder, who's not being disciplined, who instead of that, they're just getting this sweet talk, this having no effect at all, that's really

positioning the child to be in control of the family. And so what people don't understand, the reason I say it's abuse is because if you come across these children in 20 years, the carnage, like the mental suffering that they're enduring because they were never loved is staggering. And then how that compounds with other problems. Like I'll talk to some of these people and I'm like,

This is horrific. And all of this could have been solved if someone would have just loved you. So if you mean by gentle parenting, you mean being okay with children's selfishness, then that's child abuse. I'm sorry.

Robert (42:11)
I agree.

I totally agree. you know, when we, when you talked about discipline, discipline is okay. I agree. It is. mean, I'd look, I, um, it is necessary.

Kenny Vaughan (42:20)
It's necessary.

if you don't, scripture tells if you don't discipline your child, it doesn't say you don't love them. It says you hate them. If you don't discipline your child, you hate them. Well, why would it say that? Because you're setting them up for massive suffering. And I'm not talking about beating the heck out of a kid or anything else, you know what mean? Only what is necessary. You know, I mean, I had one kid that literally probably required some gentle parenting because if I raised my voice,

Robert (42:28)
Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (42:49)
When I was done, she would go hide under the bed for three hours. And I'm like, Grace, baby, it's okay. So, I mean, literally with her, I kind of had to do gentle where it was like, listen, baby, you're okay. Dad loves you, but you can't do that, okay? And that was all it took. You know what mean? Because I had to keep her together whenever I tried to just correct her. But that was Grace. Then I had faith. And man, it took.

Robert (42:52)
Right, right.

Kenny Vaughan (43:16)
I had to the house down just to get her attention, you know? But whatever it takes, but whichever one it is has to be for their sake.

Robert (43:18)
Hahaha

Right.

do you think, I think society is doing.

big disfavor of the, gentleness and not being a parent, of not disciplining. And again, you said it, and I agree, discipline is love in the right manner, right? Too much can certainly be harmful, but discipline can be, I think of it as a correction, right?

What's your view on society today and how that affects parenting? Do you think we're heading the right road, wrong road? Do you think it's harmful?

Kenny Vaughan (44:06)
Well, society shouldn't affect our parenting, but it does because everybody's afraid and they want to be approved. They want approval. so whatever society says is proper, then they they want to fall, they fall in line because they're afraid because they don't want to push back. Even if they know it's not true, it's easier. It's a lot easier to just follow the crowd, you know, and

Robert (44:11)
Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (44:36)
fall in line than it is to push back. Cause when you push back, you know, half the crowds going to come after you. Who wants to deal with that? You know? But if you love your family, I'm sorry, they can all come after me. Whatever it takes, I'm going to love my family. But, but the, but if you're asking about gentleness, you know, and what, how that's affecting families, because a lot of them follow that. Now I think we should be clear. There's nothing wrong with being gentle. And I think strong men are gentle, but if

your child doesn't need gentleness. If they need stern correction and you won't give it to them because you're afraid you're going to seem harsh or because you're afraid of how it's going to make you look and you want to make sure you appear gentle because that makes you fit into the crowd, makes you feel like a good parent and you can't handle dealing with the fact that you are actually somewhat harsh to your child even though it was best for them, then you

hate to say it like this, but you don't love your child, you love yourself.

Robert (45:40)
Yeah, you're living for others and how they view you.

Kenny Vaughan (45:43)
Yeah, it's your responsibility to love your child. That has nothing to do with you. If loving your child means the whole world hates you, congratulations. A good job. And so there's nothing wrong with gentleness. I think we should be gentle. My dad was gentle and he also wasn't gentle. But he did what I think he believed was best for me at any given moment in time. I knew one thing I never in my life wondered was whether or my dad loved me.

It never crossed my mind. Like I couldn't believe it when I found out some people didn't think their dads loved them. You know, but, but half of our neighborhood thought my dad was abusive. All the kids played at our house and I run into these kids because my dad, he'd wear me out if he caught me doing something stupid, you know, and then he'd take me fishing. And if any other kids in the neighborhood came over to our house and they did something stupid, my dad would tell them.

Robert (46:20)
know.

Kenny Vaughan (46:40)
Or he'd send them home and say, you come back tomorrow, but I already warned you and you're going home. And, then he'd take them fishing. And now I run into him, you know, all these years, honestly, growing up in this neighborhood, we had this little neighborhood called Sherwood Forest. It was a cool little neighborhood, six streets. It was just cul-de-sac. And anyway, all those kids, I always thought everybody was afraid of my dad and they thought that he was mean. And I bump into these guys now as adults. I saw one the other day, hadn't seen in years. Happens all the time.

And we're just chatting, you know, give a hug, hey, it's good to see you, I've seen you so long. And every time this is what comes up, you're like, your dad was like a dad to me.

Robert (47:21)
He was giving them what they needed.

Kenny Vaughan (47:22)
I'll never forget him, Yeah,

right. So love isn't just, love is gentle, but it's not just gentle.

Robert (47:30)
Yeah.

Yeah. They knew your dad, they knew your dad wasn't doing that to be a jerk. You know, they knew that they knew it was coming out of a, out of a place of love, of care, of concern of, Hey, you don't do that. You know, you can get hurt or that's disrespectful or that's, you know, harmful to somebody else. It's, or that's just not nice.

Kenny Vaughan (47:42)
That's right.

Right. So what happens in a family is if the father disciplines his children for his children's sake, if he loves his wife for his wife's sake, not his own sake. And now sometimes he's going to do it the wrong My dad did it the wrong way sometimes too. Sometimes he just lost his temper and it wasn't about anybody else but him. But yeah, right. But then what do you do? You sit down talk to him. Say, Hey, you know what? I shouldn't have responded like that.

Robert (48:14)
We all make mistakes,

Kenny Vaughan (48:21)
But just so you know, I'm still not gonna let you get away with that. We're not gonna do that stuff. I could have handled a little better. You wanna go fishing? You know, whatever. But yes, as a father, what our children, our families need to, and they will know this. They are absolutely gonna know this. They're gonna know they're loved if the why behind what we're doing is them. What's truly best for them, not always what they want, not what they...

feel best about and all that, what you believe is truly best for them, that's when a child knows they're loved. That's when your wife knows she's loved. It's when you're doing what you believe is truly best for them, even when they don't like it. Especially when they don't like it, because they know it's hard for you to do. And they may not like it in the moment, but when they go to bed that night, they know they're loved. But if you do it the other way, when you demand respect, when you discipline, it's really not for them, it's for you.

then they know they're not loved. And the problem with the world is they see dads disciplining their children for their own sake, not for the child's sake. Well, they're right that that's wrong, but their answer to that is don't discipline your child. That's not an answer. That's a bigger problem. You know, you're better off disciplining them for the wrong reason than not disciplining them at all.

Robert (49:35)
Yeah, which is bizarre. No. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's like, let's just remove discipline altogether then. So no.

Kenny Vaughan (49:46)
Right.

Robert (49:49)
Kenny, I know that that is, that's wonderful. Hey, and I want to be respectful of your time. advice for dads, for fathers, you've given so much of it, but if there was something that you were going to leave, what for dads, what would that be?

Kenny Vaughan (49:50)
stories families.

Well, I wrote a book called The Right Fight, How to Live a Loving Life. I kind of, I try to teach through this backwards in the book. Like I went from experience, like chapter one is me failing to love my daughter and then figuring it out in the middle of it. And then finally making the right decision and then seeing the fruit of that. And then, and then I kind of, that's how the book plays out. But what I'm getting at is this, at the end of the book,

By the last chapter, what I've been trying to lay out is what love is and how love works. But at the end of the book, what I'll try to address is, okay, now that we know what love is and we know how love works, where do we find the power to love? Like, I know that's the right thing to do, but I can't do it. I'm struggling to do it. And we find the power to love in being grafted into the vine, as God's Word tells us.

So we find the power of love in love himself, Christ. So it's surrendering our lives to Jesus and coming to understand who he really is, what love really is that empowers us to then love our families and love our neighbors. And really, I would say you don't have to know anything anyone says about love. You don't have to have any understanding of love. You don't have to have been raised by loving parents. You could have been, you could have...

all of the worst of everything. But if you get to know Jesus, you'll get to know love. And if you get Him inside of you, if you receive Him, then He will renew your own spirit and create desire into you to love. And then as you're like, no one taught me a lot of what I've learned. You know, I've just learned it by studying God's word, drawing close to Christ.

and then seeking the truth at all costs. Like just, if it's not true, I don't want it. And so.

The best advice I could give is Jesus. He is love, he really is. And he can show you and teach you how to love.

Robert (52:22)
roadmap. Definitely a roadmap for how to to how to love and how to be loving. I mean, absolutely.

Kenny Vaughan (52:28)
Right.

And then I would say don't love to be loved. Right. Yeah. You don't love to be loving to be loved is using love to get what you want. It's a form of manipulation. And so I don't know. Could I close with a quick story? Okay. Just for fathers, because I think this is just something I experienced and I thought this taught me a lot and it really helped me with my relationship with my daughter. So she was around three years old. Faith was my older one.

Robert (52:33)
That's so important.

manipulation.

I'd love for you to.

Kenny Vaughan (52:58)
And she was the one that took bringing the house down just to get her attention. Nothing I did made any difference at all. We're at a, what was called the rice festival. We're in Southeast Texas. So lot of rice farm around here. It's every fall. We love going and she's little and we go and they ride the carnival rides and lots of good food. We get to eat and then it's time to go. And Faith, by this time Faith was three and she was like, like Tammy would have to leave the grocery store. because Faith was

so out of control at three years old. And so just misbehaved and she saw something she wanted. She was the fit picture. You you've seen grocery stores and stuff like that. How did I get this? You know? And so anyway, we're at the Rice Festival. It's time. I'm like, it's time to go, baby. We got to go. And I know before I say we have to leave, you know, I know what's coming because she's having fun. But we've done the one more, one more, one more ride, you know, one too many times already. And then her cousins show up.

Robert (53:36)
Yeah.

Yeah, you know, yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (53:57)
I'm like, Lord. So, okay, one more with the cousins and then we're gone. And then she blows her gasket, my little three-year-old fate. I really didn't know what to do anymore. I'm like, I know this is not best for my daughter, but what do I do? And so I just picked her up and put her under my arm and I carried her out of there. I'm like, I was the meanest dad in the whole place. I wasn't yelling, screaming or anything else, but I clearly had a child under my arm that was throwing an absolute fit. She was trying to bite me.

on the way out of there. I'm picking on her, literally. I get her in the car seat. To get her in the car seat, have to push her in the car seat. I have to put my knee, I'm not hurting her, okay? But I can't buckle her and hold her, because she's arching her back, doing all this stuff. Yeah, so I got to hold her belly down with my knee to buckle her into that car seat. We drive home, she's throwing the fit the whole way home. We get home, we're parking the driveway, and I tell Tammy, I said, baby, that's my wife, y'all go inside.

Robert (54:30)
You

Ha

Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (54:55)
Me and Faith are not coming inside until she tells me she's sorry. And Tammy's like, Candy, that ain't gonna happen. I was like, I'm sorry, baby, go inside. We ain't coming inside until she tells me I'm But in my mind, I'm thinking this is never gonna work. You know what mean? But I don't know what else to do. So we sit there, and I'll spare you the long story, but three hours, I'm not kidding you, in that car, she sat in that car. See, I almost gave up a dozen times.

She was screaming and hollering crying the whole time. Every now and then I just turn around and say, baby, all you have to do is tell daddy you're sorry and I'll let you out of that car seat. I never yelled back. I never threw a fit. I never did anything. After about three hours, she finally just ran out of gas. Like she was just whimpering. I'm telling you, like lightning struck. I saw her break. I mean, she went from this hard, mean, I hate you, all that stuff, you know.

to

Robert (56:03)
I'm out.

Kenny Vaughan (56:21)
And I, and what's wrong with you? What are you doing? I'm like, you know, if the camera's rolling on me right now, I'm the worst dad in the world. The whole world would hate me. My daughter's gonna hate me. You know what happened? I took her out of that car seat. Man, she hugged me like we never hugged before. And we held each other, we cried. And I said, listen, baby, I love you. And the reason I can't let you behave this way is because I love you. And I want you to understand if you ever do this again, we're gonna do this again.

I'm not gonna pretend this is okay, but it's all because I love you and for you and because it's not best for you to be like this. And man, she was so out control. I'm gonna tell you something. I never saw that again. I never saw it again. Now she had to go to timeout sometimes after that, but timeout was enough. I never saw that again. And then when Grace came along, she's the tender one. It only took her like 30 minutes in the car seat, but she did the same thing. So I just went back to the car seat.

Robert (57:02)
I bet. I bet.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (57:19)
And when my boy came around, took 45 minutes for him. He's pretty tender too. But we were at the zoo and man, we shut the whole party down. Like we couldn't go into the zoo for 45 minutes. I think it was 45 minutes because both his sisters were like, Kennedy, he's not letting you out. You have to stop. Yeah. Right. But that's hard, man. That is hard stuff. It's just hard to do. But that's loving your family. And you do it for their sake. You don't lose it. And if you lose it, now you got it on it.

Robert (57:32)
I've been there. I've done that. Trust me. Yeah, it is.

It is.

Kenny Vaughan (57:48)
you gotta apologize for that part. So I hope that helps some.

Robert (57:49)
Man, Kenny,

no, I appreciate you sharing that and parenting. it's the hardest job. It's the hardest job I've ever done. it is full of landmines. It's full of mistakes.

Kenny Vaughan (57:58)
So

Robert (58:07)
And you know, you have definitely laid out some great examples and great guidelines. And it's, you know, I think about the different mistakes I make too is, and it's also what we're teaching them, but the mistakes I make of showing them, look, I messed up dad approach that the wrong way. Here's how I should have. Now, the reason why I did this was because you were doing something harmful or you did something that, you know,

wasn't nice to somebody. My reaction to that should have been different. But it's tough, it is just so, it's imperative that we are strong parents. I think the, don't think I feel a hundred percent that dads are that strong corner piece if you want to be in and of the family and showing that.

Kenny Vaughan (59:04)
That's your responsibility.

Right.

Robert (59:05)
Yeah,

because everything revolves around you. Everything the stability of the family. Stability, the love all of that.

Kenny Vaughan (59:11)
Yup. And I've seen, I'm going tell you, I've

seen dads do a really good job with the right why And then I've seen dads with the right why do a pretty bad job and the kids are still fine. You know, it's what wrecked kids is when the why is wrong. So you could do a really good job apparently.

Robert (59:27)
Yeah. Hmm.

Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (59:38)
You you see this all the time. like, yeah, well, you know, we had the part of family, we gave everything for our kids and all that. But if you go talk to the kids, they're like, yeah, I've never loved. And then parents are like, I loved you. Let me tell you how much I loved you. It's like, man, if the kid's saying he wasn't ever loved, he might not have been. So you did all that stuff, but you did it for the wrong reasons. You Jesus said the same thing. You do all these good things, but if you have not loved, you gain nothing. But the love is the why. So as long as the kid, my point just being this, as long as the kid understands it,

Robert (59:54)
Yeah.

Kenny Vaughan (1:00:06)
What you're doing is for their sake. They know dad messes up. Our goal should be to mess up less and to repent when we do mess up. But we don't need to ourselves with the burden of being a perfect dad. Just a loving dad. And one that keeps the family first. And if your why is right, and it works in every relationship in life, you know, it's like, I think they're looking out for me. Even if I don't agree with them, at least I know they love me.

Robert (1:00:34)
Yeah. Yeah. Kenny, you're a beautiful person. I love what you're doing. I love the message that you're spreading. I love your vulnerability. you know, when you talk about a strong man, a strong father, you're it, you know, you were talking about being gentle, talking about being strong. mean, you've, you've seen that just throughout this interview and, you know, your family's lucky to have you.

Kenny Vaughan (1:00:40)
Thank you.

Robert (1:01:02)
I'm lucky to have you on here and we're lucky to have you in this world. Hey before you go though I have to ask what about faith now you got to tell me what is what is is she still

Kenny Vaughan (1:01:11)
That's a great question. She's still hard-headed, but

man, I would say we're like, just our family, I'm so blessed. Our family is so tight, know. Faith's older now, she's 24. So, and she's been out of the house for a couple of years now, but you know, we do everything together. She's my best bud. And we knock horns and...

Robert (1:01:27)
Okay.

Kenny Vaughan (1:01:37)
And what's awesome about it ever since is that even when we don't agree on things, I still wonder sometimes, hey, she's 24, she can just go away, you know, or whatever, but she doesn't. And she knows I love her and mom loves her and we know she loves us and so.

Robert (1:01:59)
She knows what that relationship's based upon.

Kenny Vaughan (1:02:02)
Yeah, love is the glue that holds us together, our families. You know what mean? That's right. It really is. So.

Robert (1:02:04)
Yeah, it's not based on you, it's based on love.

Kenny,

keep doing the beautiful work that you're doing, definitely. And tell people how they can find you.

Kenny Vaughan (1:02:19)
I'm just at, we are Shields of Strength. We make jewelry and that's every piece of jewelry we make has scripture on it. So that's the Shields of Strength Instagram. I have a personal Instagram, it's at John Kennedy Vaughn. And I post videos on that, you know, at least three or four times a week. And then we have a podcast, it's called the Right Fight Podcast. Or shieldsofstrength.com is our website. So we're pretty easy to find.

Robert (1:02:44)
You know what? I did not know that you had a personal Instagram. You're going to get a new follower. Once it's there with, I'll go, yeah, you will. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, look, I so much appreciate you coming on. I definitely do.

Kenny Vaughan (1:02:48)
Yeah. No, awesome. I appreciate it. Yeah. At John Kennedy, like the president and then last name Vaughn. Yeah.

I really appreciate

your invitation and your willingness to let me chat.

Robert (1:03:02)
Man, I

just, love what you're doing. I mean, I love what you're doing. And I do think love is, it's what we all need. I mean, it's what we all need. And it needs to be the root of everything that we do.

Kenny Vaughan (1:03:14)
Yeah, it's probably not what we think it is. I'm not talking about romance and all that stuff, right? Yeah.

Robert (1:03:17)
No. Right. Right. Right. Well,

thank, thank you. I appreciate it. Kenny. All right. Hey, and thank you all for listening to the podcast. You can find us on, um, Instagram or YouTube as well as Spotify and Apple. Feel free to hit the like and subscribe button. And also, uh, I encourage you to leave a, leave a comment. I read every one of those and I really enjoy receiving the, the feedback as well. And thank you all again, and we will see you all next time.

Kenny Vaughan (1:03:24)
Yeah, thank you. All right.