The Importance of Intentional Fatherhood with Larry Hagner

Larry Hagner shares his profound insights on fatherhood, drawing from his personal experiences and the challenges he faced growing up without a traditional father figure. He emphasizes the critical role fathers play in shaping their children's lives and the generational impact of fatherhood. Larry discusses his journey from a troubled childhood to becoming a dedicated father of four, highlighting the importance of intentional parenting and continuous learning. He introduces his new book, 'The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood,' which aims to guide fathers in navigating the complexities of parenting and building strong family connections. The conversation also touches on the significance of community and support for fathers, encouraging them to seek knowledge and resources to improve their parenting skills.

Takeaways

• Fatherhood is a generational responsibility.
• The absence of a father can lead to significant societal issues.
• Intentional parenting can change the trajectory of families.
• Experiencing abandonment shaped Larry's approach to fatherhood.
• Learning and growth are essential in parenting.
• The drift refers to the complacency many fathers feel in their roles.
• Community support is vital for fathers to thrive.
• Every father should actively seek knowledge to improve their parenting. 

How to find Larry Hagner
www.thedadedge.com/
IG www.instagram.com/thedadedge/

Dad to Dads Podcast on IG www.instagram.com/dadtodads

Transcript

Robert Poirier (00:00)
Larry Hagner. Welcome to the podcast.

Larry Hagner (00:03)
What is going on? Robert, thank you so much for having me, brother.

Robert Poirier (00:06)
Man, I appreciate you coming on. Now look, you've got your own podcast. You've got a huge social media following. You're also an accomplished author You also have another one coming out, which I want to hear more about, but I just, I appreciate you coming on.

Larry Hagner (00:19)
Well, thank you so much for having me, man. This is a lot of fun. yeah, I mean, the thing that makes me so passionate, I guess, about fatherhood is the fact that I had Meg Meeker on the podcast. guess it was probably, I don't know, gosh, was it was a long time ago. It was probably in 2019 or so. And she wrote the book Strong Father, Strong Daughters. She also wrote the book My Father, the Hero. She's really into this.

sort of fatherhood space and she knows it very, well. And, ⁓ one of the things that she said when she came out of the podcast was, ⁓ if you put an intentional purposeful dad underneath every single roof and every single house in just the United States alone, the world would change overnight because yeah, because of, if you really look at the statistics and this is not to take anything away from moms, but if you really look at the statistics and you know,

Robert Poirier (01:05)
Oh, 100%, yeah.

Larry Hagner (01:15)
what a father brings to the table. It's tremendous. It's, it's absolutely unbelievable. And it's, it's undeniable. I mean, the statistics of fatherless homes will absolutely blow your mind of like, you take a dad out of the house and there's usually disaster that, that strikes pretty quickly and pretty heavily. mean, like, I think it's 82 % of, all incarcerated individuals are from fatherless homes or from an absent father to some degree. I think it's a 80%.

plus of teenage pregnancies come from a fatherless home. If you look at kids who deal with drugs, suicidal ideation, anxiety, depression, ⁓ those stats are always higher with a fatherless home. And, ⁓ I mean, I'm, I'm here fighting this fight, man. And that it is to positively disrupt this generation of fathers, just this generation of families. And to be honest, it's much bigger than that. It's not only to generate or to, positively

disrupt this generation of fathers. It's to positively just to disrupt the next generation of kids. Because if we botched this, you know, as we as we're doing it, you know, we're the ones that the dads we're going to, there's a good chance the next generation will be botched too. So this is a fight that's generational. It's not just, it's not just what the men who are experiencing fatherhood now it's it's generational.

Robert Poirier (02:29)
absolutely.

So tell me about you, tell me about you growing up. Did you have a father, your relationship with your dad, love to hear more about that.

Larry Hagner (02:45)
I mean, yes and no. mean, you know, why do I do this work? A lot of it actually has to do with how I was raised and like the, the, the trouble that I found myself in about 13 years ago as a dad. So, ⁓ did I have a role model? I did. I really, really did. He didn't, he wasn't in the, ⁓ your typical traditional like father figure. It was my grandfather on my mom's side. So he lived about a mile from us. ⁓ and I think that guy probably.

Saw a bunch of like the chaos that I was going through and how I was being brought up. And I think that, I think my grandfather like really stepped in. He never said I'm stepping in. He never said like, Hey, I'm going to show up and teach you some things about life. He never said it. He just did it. And, um, he was an amazing man. He, he died in 1998 and he was married to my grandmother for 53 years. And I'll tell you like no other man on the planet taught me.

how to love a woman like he did, how to lead a family like he did, how to lead himself like he did, ⁓ how to just basically make other people feel like they're the most important people in the room. That's my grandfather did really, really well. He's very charismatic, but he did it from a very genuine place. He didn't do it from a fake place. He didn't even do it from a place of like he wanted people like him. That's just who he was, which I thought was really amazing. But my...

My immediate family was a very different story. So my mom, I've told this story many times and I've, I've always been told her like, wow, that's a really unique story. I I don't think I've ever heard anything like that. So, um, my mom and biological father were married in when they were really young and they were, think they were like 21 and then they had me about four years later. like right around there at 25 when they had me and they were married for four years. And by the time they had me, it was

It was horrific. Their relationship was absolutely horrific. And it was it was a bad divorce. And I don't remember it. I mean, I was just I was a year old and my dad left and I had I have no recollection of my dad. None when I was a kid. In fact, when I was four, I still remember, you know, it's kind of like I think when the audio visual kind of turns on, the memory turns on. It's like right around four or five. It was right before kindergarten. And I remember just

pretty clearly like my friends getting picked up by their dads. So I knew what a dad was. I knew what a mom was. knew what a dad was. And some dads wore suits and some dads wore jeans and some dads. ⁓ you know, they, they, ⁓ they, but I knew what a dad was and I knew we didn't have one. It was, it was not a, not a big deal to me because I just figured moms go out and find dads. Like that's literally my definition. Like mom's gone and find dads and my mom hadn't found our dad yet. And that was fine.

Robert Poirier (05:17)
You

Right.

Larry Hagner (05:34)
And then on there, forget it was right around five years old, right around the same time. mom pulled me aside one Friday afternoon and said, Hey, ⁓ I'm having a friend over for dinner tonight. He's a really special friend of mine and I work with him and I would really like for you to meet him. think you might like them. And that was my mom's way of telling me she'd been dating somebody she'd worked with. And it was time for me to meet him. And immediately in my mind, the thing that my, my mind, literally the very first place that went to was, is she found the dad. This is the dad.

Robert Poirier (05:53)
Mm-hmm.

Larry Hagner (06:03)
And I was really excited to meet the dad because I was like, this guy's going to be the dad. So like he walks in my house. ⁓ four or five years old. And I still remember this as vivid as yesterday walks in our house. He's got a trench coat on cause it was kind of cold out at the time. He's got a three piece suit on. He's got feathered hair, mustache, like double Windsor tie. Like this dude looks like the dad, like all the dads I'd seen this guy looks like the dad.

Robert Poirier (06:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Larry Hagner (06:29)
And this guy shakes my hand as soon as he walks in and he's like, Hey, my name is Joe. What's your name? And I said, my name's Larry. And are you going to be my dad? Like literally I, that was the first question I laid on this guy after I told him my name. And like I said, are you going to be my dad? was so excited about this. And I remember my mom like gasping like, and I remember him laughing awkwardly. And I'll tell you, I remember that night. Like it was yesterday because he played with me. Like he literally like.

Robert Poirier (06:43)
Hmm.

Larry Hagner (06:58)
played like army guys with me and we watched I don't know if you remember the show chips but it was like my favorite my favorite show growing up we watched chips together and we put on little motorcycle helmets and we acted like we were riding motorcycle like Paunch and John and I just like was I mean I'm kind of the chills talking about it so I was like my gosh this guy's like playing with me like a dad would and like I thought that was that was it this guy's the dad so six months later my mom and him get married

Robert Poirier (07:03)
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Larry Hagner (07:25)
And that marriage lasted about six years and the first year was cool. And then the next five were horrific. Like he was insanely abusive, a major drinker. So was my mom though. ⁓ They fought horrifically. Like I would wake up in the middle of the night with them beating each other up. I mean, I would scream at the top of my lungs. I didn't have to hear my mom yelling. He would come into my room, beat me up. Like it was, it was awful, man.

Robert Poirier (07:46)
Mm.

Larry Hagner (07:54)
And then about 10 years old, they got divorced. And I'll tell you at 10 years old, when your dad leaves, cause that guy adopted me, he was the only one I knew of. was my dad. When your dad leaves, like there was, and he's like that, there was a tremendous sense of relief. like, man, I'm glad he's gone. Holy crap. But there was also this tremendous void at the same time. It's like, well now what? Like all my friends have dads. I don't like this kind of sucks. Like I'm kind of like the outcast again. And then my, my mom,

Robert Poirier (08:13)
Yeah.

Larry Hagner (08:22)
My mom laid it on me right around that point in time. Cause I asked, cause I was just like, where did I come from? This guy didn't start coming around until I was five. Like, and I knew what the birds and the bees were. And that's why my mom told me that she'd been married and I was, I had a dad out there had no fricking clue, man. Not a clue.

Robert Poirier (08:39)
So this whole

time, your biological father has had nothing to do with you, hasn't reached out, curious about what's going on with little Larry, anything like that.

Larry Hagner (08:45)
Nothing.

Not that I know of anyway, like he could have contacted my mom. have no idea. Like it was never, never shared with me. And, so in my world, no, I'd never heard from him. Never knew anything about him. So fast forward a couple of years later, my mom was like dating and every guy was like just same dude, just different name, different face, like drinker party or that kind of thing. And when I was 12, I serendipitously ran into my father. Like.

Robert Poirier (08:50)
Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, okay. Okay.

Larry Hagner (09:16)
Kind of crazy. Like, and I'll tell the story super, super fast. Um, I was 12. went up to the local rec center to play basketball with one of my friends and I knew my dad's name. That was it. I just knew my dad's name. I had no idea where he lived at. I had no idea if he was even in St. Louis. And I heard the clerk after I got my basketball at this rec center say, comes Mrs. So-and-so. I'll leave his last name out of this. Here comes Mrs. So-and-so with the hockey payment and his name's not.

The norm. It's not like it's Smith or anything like that. And I look outside and I see this woman coming up and walking, goodbye, ready to walk into the building. And I looked at the clerk and I said, I'm sorry, what did you say her last name was? And he told me, and I was like, is she married? And he goes, yeah, that's why she's coming up here because her husband plays hockey up here and she's making the hockey payment for the ice time. And I go, what's her husband's name? And he said, Larry. And that's my dad's name. And I was like, Larry. And then the last name, I was like, I was like, my God, I was like,

What are the chances? And I was with my friend and I was like, Hey dude, I'm going to talk to this lady when she walks in. Cause I think this lady's married to my dad. And my friend was like, what? Like completely blown away. And so I go up to this woman after she makes the payment. I'm like literally waiting for her and I tap her on the shoulder and I'm 12 and I go up to her. like, excuse me. And she said, yeah. And I go, what's your name? And she told me, and I go, are you married to a guy named Larry? And she said,

Robert Poirier (10:24)
Yeah.

Larry Hagner (10:42)
Yeah. And I go, I know this sounds kind of crazy. I was like, but I think you're married to my dad. Like literally I just threw it out there as plain as day, like just 12 year old kid. And she looked at me and she was like, are you Larry? And I was like, yeah, I am. So she is so this confirmation. was like, my God, I have the right person. And she just looked at me like just completely floored. And she goes, sweetheart, would you like to talk to your dad? And I was like, my God.

Robert Poirier (10:52)
Yeah.

Larry Hagner (11:09)
I would love to talk to my dad. How, how would we do that? She took me around the corner to the pay phones, put a quarter and called home and said, Hey, ⁓ I'm standing here at the civic center and I'm standing here with your 12 year old son. He'd like to talk to you. And she just handed the phone over to me and I talked to him. I don't remember what it said. I just remember the energy over, over the phone. My dad was completely thrown off his game. I could tell he was just had no idea what to say. Neither did I.

Robert Poirier (11:11)
Yeah.

Yeah

Larry Hagner (11:37)
But we, we, asked him, I was like, can I meet you? I'd really like to meet you. And he's like, yeah, I would love that. Go home and ask your mom. I asked my mom. My mom was not happy about it, but I did end up meeting him and to make, a really long story short, I'll make it super short. We hung out for about six months. He'd only lived three miles from us. He came to all my little league games.

Like I saw him every week. Like I was like over the moon, like, Oh my God, it's my dad. And he was remarried. Obviously the time had a two year old son, another one on the way. I spent tons of time with him, tons of time in his house. And then after about six months, things start to change. It was just really, really weird. And then like, I remember calling him one day and I was actually at my grandparents' house. I remember where I was sitting. I remember being, you 12, almost 13 years old, picking up the phone, calling them, asking them like, is something wrong? Like,

I feel like something's not right with us like something's going on and I think I kind of phrased it that way And my dad, I don't even remember what he said. I have no clue. I don't remember it I just remember that was the end of our relationship and we parted ways again and that freaking killed me man. I Over ate got really fat. I failed the eighth grade. I had to do eighth grade twice ⁓ My mom continued to date these really crazy dudes and then I got into high school

Robert Poirier (12:39)
Wow.

Larry Hagner (12:53)
And then I went away to college and got my degree. You know, even though I failed eighth grade, I managed to turn things around. And then I became, you know, I got married, got a great high paying job in medical device sales, lost all my, you know, kid weight when I was about 17 got really into fitness. So really kind of turned things around. Got married in 2003. And then in 2005, I turned 30 years old, find out we're pregnant with our first kid. And I'm in a coffee shop here in St. Louis for a business meeting.

Robert Poirier (13:08)
Yeah.

Larry Hagner (13:22)
for medical device for the company I worked for. And I'm sitting there and who came walking in for his morning coffee. But my dad, I hadn't seen him since I was 12. And I knew exactly who he was when he walked in. He's just a older, a little rounder. And one of the people that were part of that meeting, I was also pretty good friends with her. And so she knew my, she knew the story of my dad and she saw this look on my face and she's like, are you okay? Like you look like you've just seen a ghost. And I was like,

And I was kind of very, I didn't want to share who had just walked in. Cause I'm like, this is a professional setting. Like we're in a business meeting and I looked at her and I was like, why not? And I was like, uh, yeah, I was like, sorry. was like, dad just walked in here and she was like, she's like, I'm, I'm sorry. What? And I was like, my, my dad just walked in here and she was like, your dad, as in the guy you hadn't seen since you were 12. Are you serious? And I was like, yep. And she goes, where is he? And I was like,

right there. Like he was like 25 feet, 30 feet away from us. And she's like, Oh my God, what are you going to do? What are you going to say to him? And I looked at her and I smiled and I was like, uh, there's no plan to say anything to him. And she's like, hang on, wait, what? And she's like, you're going to let your dad walk out of here without saying a word to him. And I was like, yeah, that's, I have nothing to say to this guy. Nothing. Like I'm like, I was pissed. I was like,

Robert Poirier (14:25)
Wow.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. He's sure you do. Yeah.

Larry Hagner (14:49)
This guy freaking left me not once, but twice. Like you think I want to, I want to go over and punch him in the face. Like I don't want to say a word to

him. Right. So she gets up without even saying a word of what she was going to do and just got up and sat at his table. And I was like, well, what is she doing? And then all of sudden I see this guy look over our table, look over at me and he, we made eye contact and I was like, what is about to happen? And he just like got up.

came over, shook my hand. He's like, Hey, I make my dad sound like a bum. He's not, he's a very successful business owner, a very successful entrepreneur. Um, and he's like, Hey, he's like, uh, man, so good to see you. Like, how have you been? Like, how's your life? Like, what are you doing? Are you married? Do you have kids? And I looked at him and I was like, I'm fine. How are you? Like I was not nice, but I wasn't mean. I was just sort of very cold. I was very indifferent. Yeah.

Robert Poirier (15:43)
Yeah, understandably so.

Larry Hagner (15:46)
And he's like, are you married? I'm like, yeah, I've been married for a couple of years. He's like, do you have kids? I was like, I have a son on the way actually. And I'm sitting here thinking like, I have a son on the way that I wouldn't leave. Like you did like that's kind like what was on my mind. And, um, he's like, well, we should get together sometime. And I go, uh-huh. I was like, I'll tell you what I handed him over my business card. Cause at the time these smartphones weren't out yet. And I said, I'll tell you what, man, here's my card. If you want to contact me, you do it. I'm not contacting you.

Robert Poirier (15:54)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Larry Hagner (16:14)
Like I was just kind of really blunt like that. And he's like, okay, I'll do that. And I was like, okay. And like two days passed, I didn't hear a thing. And I was like, I knew I wouldn't hear anything. And then I got this email, like this really long email and this guy just poured his heart out, you know, 55 years old and telling me like, I'm sorry, like worst mistakes I've ever made, like really poured his heart out. And he's like, if, know, if you would be so gracious, I'd love to just take you out to breakfast. And so I went out to breakfast with him.

And I'll never forget, man, being out to breakfast with my dad that I hadn't had a relationship with. And I was so nervous. I wanted to almost throw up. I was like, I don't even know what to say. And I remember like nervously making small talk with him. think I asked him like 20 questions. It felt like I just didn't want there to be silence. And then finally I just looked at him and I was just like, and he's like, what? And I go, I'm sorry, man. I was like, I just, I'm just gonna be really blunt here.

I have no idea what I can ask you. I have no idea what I, what's appropriate for me to ask. I have no idea what to talk to you about. I have no idea what the rules of this relationship are. If there is a relationship, like I have no clue what to do sitting here with you. And he looked at me just as plain as day and he goes, I really appreciate that honesty. And do you think I do? I don't know. And I was like, and it just was like this.

It was almost like the pressure release valve went out of the room because I was like, my God, we literally have this in common. We both don't know what to do. We're both adults here we both have no clue what to do. That was 20 years ago and we've had a relationship ever since. And I, he's been married to the same woman has been for 45 years. have two younger half brothers. have. Very, very. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then the final thing is this. I was a dad for six years before I started dad edge.

Robert Poirier (17:55)
So he's involved, has he evolved with your kids?

Larry Hagner (18:05)
And growing up the way I did where there was abandonment, there was abuse, there was chaos, there was drinking, there was drugs. There was like, it was horrific. I was messing up fatherhood myself, even though I didn't want to. And how dad edge got started is I made a promise to myself. I was like, I was hit a lot growing up. I'm never going to hit my kids out of anger ever. And I broke that promise. My kid who's 17 now he was four at the time he stepped out of line. I spanked him and unfortunately I spanked him so hard. He hit the ground. I actually fell and.

When I went to go pick him up, cause I immediately was like, Oh my God, what did I just do? I went to go pick him up and he saw me coming like this, like, Oh my God, are you all right? And he saw my hands out like this and he literally just closed his eyes and put his hands up. Like, don't hurt me. And I was like, Oh my God. I was like, what have I done? Like, this has got to stop. And it was that night that I started dad edge. And it was literally just like, I asked myself a question of like, I I basically was like, I suck at this.

I'm not good at this. Why do I suck at it? And I really started thinking about things and I really, it really boiled down to this. I hadn't done one thing to learn anything about it. Not one. I started looking at all these other areas of my life. Like I have a degree in exercise science and a minor in nutrition so I can, I can teach anybody how to be fit and I can do it myself. Like it's a no brainer for me, but I've also took four years to learn it.

I used to do martial arts for 12 years. I loved martial arts. was pretty, I was pretty okay at it. And I'm like, why am I good at that? Well, there's a curriculum I have. have an instructor. I have people I do it with. I learn it, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. And I started thinking about all these amazing things that human beings do in their life. They learn it first. And I'm like, well, what have I done to learn anything about marriage and fatherhood besides try to wing it? Nothing.

So can I learn it? Do the same rules apply? And that's honestly, man, that's what the past 13 years have been. It's been this exploration and this journey of like learning it and putting it into books and into podcasts. And turns out the good news is you can learn it.

Robert Poirier (20:05)
Wow. Larry first. Thank you. ⁓ that is a lot to unpack and from, know, you three, four years old and meeting, you know, when you talk about you meeting this man coming, you know, coming over to your house and are you going to be my, are you going to be my dad? It breaks my heart. Like literally just, I think about that little boy who's just yearning for a father, you know, yearning for

masculinity, know, somebody to look up to and, ⁓ and then to have that ripped away and well, everything in between that. then the, ⁓ the chaos with your biological dad, but, I appreciate you sharing that. And I'm so happy to hear that he is in your life now and, ⁓ part of your son's life as well. But, ⁓ that's a lot that

That's more than you said a unique story. That's more than unique. Tell you what, that's, that's a book in and of itself right there. But also Larry, makes a lot of sense. You as to why you're so passionate about fatherhood and why you're so like, if you look at your page, if you, you know, listen to you, couldn't see you're a proud dad. You love being a dad. And that, that makes a lot of sense. And I think, you know, you kind of learn things either

In this journey that I've been on with the podcasts of talking to different fathers, I always loved whether I have them on the air, talk about, know, how'd you get into this or what does fatherhood mean to you or when we're not recording. ⁓ it's usually one of the other, either there was somebody, you know, a father figure that was absent or they just had a really good dad and they want to share that with others and they want to try to be the best dad

That makes a lot of sense, a lot of sense. man, I appreciate what you're doing and I do thank you for sharing that.

Larry Hagner (22:01)
Thank you, and thanks for giving me the space to share it.

Robert Poirier (22:04)
that's quite the journey you've been on. ⁓ All right. Let's talk about your boys. have four of them, which was give me, me the ranges of ages there.

Larry Hagner (22:11)
Last time I counted, yeah.

I always joke with people. like, I can't remember. There's too many of them. No, I'm kidding. was 19, 17, 11 and nine.

Robert Poirier (22:22)
Okay, alright, Sports.

Larry Hagner (22:25)
Yeah, my oldest. So the funny thing is we call him, we call him the pattern breaker. ⁓ I actually got him a plaque that says the pattern breaker, ⁓ the pattern breaker. he's a band kid. ⁓ he played saxophone all through the high school marching band and worked his way up to section leader. And then his senior year he became the drum major. So he was leading the whole high school band and, ⁓ always been a band kid loves band. ⁓ not the most athletic kid in the world, but went out for the, went out for the wrestling team is sophomore year.

Robert Poirier (22:51)
That's okay.

Wow. Okay, okay.

Larry Hagner (22:54)
And wrestle is last year high school.

we call them the pattern breaker because I'm like, dude, there's, there's not many band kids that wrestle, you know, in number one.

Robert Poirier (23:03)
Yeah, I was about

to say there's nobody I've ever known that can lead the band and also wrestle.

Larry Hagner (23:08)
Also, Russell, yeah, so funny. But like it was so funny when he went out for the band or went out for wrestling. He was terrified. He's like, Dad, like, what are the what are the wrestlers going to say? Like they're going to pick on me like I'm the band kid, like, and I'm not the wrestler. And here's the this is hilarious. Like, I can't make this up. The wrestlers loved him like they were like, dude, you can lead the band. You can play saxophone and wrestle like, dude.

Like they just thought he was fascinating, like and they loved him and he got along so well with the wrestlers. As soon as he went out for the wrestling team, the band kids turned on him and they picked on it. Yeah, they were just like, ⁓ you just think you're like a wrestler now. You're like, too cool for us. I'm like, and he's like, ⁓ no, I just wanted to do something athletic. I want to do something to challenge me. I want to learn some self-defense, too. And so that's why he went out for the wrestling team. So got a wrestler and a band kid. ⁓ My 17 year old is the starting center for his varsity football team.

Robert Poirier (23:46)
Really?

Larry Hagner (24:07)
has been for the past three years. He's been playing, playing football since he was eight. ⁓ he's just, he, he's a, he's way bigger than me and stronger. And he tells me every day how much stronger he is. I mean, he just, he just, entered into the thousand pound club. He's the 11th kid in his high school to get into the thousand pound club. And it's a, it's a squat bench and clean. It's not deadlift, which, so he's cleaning 200.

Robert Poirier (24:13)
So pretty big guy.

Wow.

Larry Hagner (24:36)
25 pounds on, know how he does that. But anyway, it's that and then my 11 year old, plays football and basketball and my nine year old is so obsessed with taekwondo. He would literally probably train every day all day. If we let him taekwondo, he just loves it.

Robert Poirier (24:53)
That's That's great. So let me ask you this. You're talking about your second one being stronger than you, bigger than you, stronger than you. How are you with that? When he started eclipsing you, how are you with that?

Larry Hagner (25:04)
It's so funny, man. I literally posted on my Instagram. There's like these two bodybuilders that are working out. And the meme was when, when you, when you are working out and suddenly for the very first time, your son is pressing more weight than you. there's this look on this one bodybuilder's face as he watches. the other guy, he's like,

Like it's just absolute defeat. But like, yeah, it's like, it's, it's funny. Like, um, you know, it's like a little demoralizing, but like, um, at the same time, like he should be like, he, she should be stronger. He should be faster. He should be smarter. He should be better. So like when he, when he jokes with me, which he does every day, he's like, I'm stronger than you. always, I always tell him, I was like, you should be, I was like, you should be stronger, faster, better, everything than me. Yeah.

Robert Poirier (25:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

I want you to be.

I want you to be more successful than me and everything, yeah.

Larry Hagner (25:50)
Yeah, I was like, if you're

behind me, then I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this job so well.

Robert Poirier (25:56)
I'm all for it, but did you coach your kids anything growing up or?

Larry Hagner (25:56)
I love that man. love that. Yeah.

I coached him in wrestling. I coached him in baseball. and now like I did martial arts for a long time. So like, I, I don't teach my son Taekwondo, but, ⁓ he goes to a school for that, but like we train together. So like we take some of the things that he's learning and then we, we just practice them. Like, and it's, it's great. Like I just.

I love spending that time with them. We'll go outside, we'll, play music and we'll, we'll do our form together and I'll polish up his punches and his kicks for him and that kind of thing. And he just loves it. You know, it's, I, I'd rather him like, quite frankly, do jujitsu because like, I think it's a more functional art when you, cause most, most fights will go to the ground. But, know, I, and I think this is kind of like, just sort of like a, like if we were to just like, take this lesson for, for dads out there, like,

He saw the karate kid and he's been wanting to do martial arts for awhile. And I've been trying to kind of push him more towards wrestling and jujitsu just cause like, and that's, I'll be very honest with you. That is the only thing that I ever tried to sort of push my kids into. don't like anything else I do. Like you want to play an instrument, play an instrument. You want to like play soccer, play soccer, baseball, play it right. But if you tell me I want to do a martial art.

I will probably try to convince you to do wrestling or jujitsu. Right. ⁓ but, but I did cook so on and Taekwondo, did all those too, but like, ⁓ with him, he tried jujitsu, he tried wrestling and he's just like, I hate this. And I'm like, okay. I was like, well, that's maybe, maybe you're a little young for it. And then he saw karate kid and he's like, that's what I want to do. And I kind of like joked with him. I was like, it's functional, but it's not. was like, if you, you can kind of build you up to think that you're.

You can defend yourself and then you just get your rear end handed to you. Somebody grabs you. was like, so it's, I was like, but you know, whatever I was like, listen, if this is what you want and like, you're really excited about it you're like ultra passionate about it, like, let's go do it. Like it was better than nothing. So I signed him up for this thing and he just can't get enough of it. And I'm like, great, whatever. You know, it's like, if he wants to do something else later down the road, like a different martial art before right now, he loves this so much. And that's what I love to see more than anything.

Robert Poirier (28:12)
Yeah.

There's so much value and in kids learning, learning, you know, some form of martial arts, there's so much value more than just, think more so than just defending themselves. I think that is a great byproduct of it, but there's so much more they learn from that. all right. So I want to just be respectful of your time too. I want to jump to your podcast. How long have you been doing it? You've been doing it a while.

Larry Hagner (28:27)
I agree.

I

Decade, yeah.

Robert Poirier (28:47)
Wow. So you're, you're one of the OGs.

Larry Hagner (28:50)
I joke with people that like when people ask how long I've been doing the podcast, like I just said this on another podcast yesterday. was like, people say that I'm an OG. I don't know what that means, but I'm guessing that means if you've been podcasting for that long, that's your status. You're an OG podcaster.

Robert Poirier (28:51)
If not, the OG.

That's too funny. That's too funny. So tell me this out of so how many episodes?

Larry Hagner (29:16)
just shy of about 1,400.

Robert Poirier (29:18)
All right, this is going to be tough then. ⁓

most memorable guest and most memorable episode and they could be the same ones but

Larry Hagner (29:28)
I'll give you a few because I think, ⁓ cause, ⁓ so I always have to go back to Matthew McConaughey. Cause I interviewed him, ⁓ a few years ago and I, it was just really, really cool. And it was very serendipitous because my wife and I, the very first date that we ever went on in college was to go see a time to kill. So it was, it was the first movie we ever saw. And then she meets, you know, Matthew McConaughey on my podcast, you know, 25 years later, which was kind of serendipitous, but he was really fun to talk to.

Robert Poirier (29:46)
wow. Yeah.

Larry Hagner (29:57)
Uh, one of my most favorite guys, I think to interview was John Bernthal. I was on his podcast and he was on mine. He's the Punisher. Um, I loved, loved him because John Bernthal, like funny thing about Bernthal is that, um, I never watched the walking dead and I never saw the Punisher. So quite frankly, I, I wasn't a hundred percent familiar with who he was. I had seen him in a really small parts and other movies. Um, so didn't really know much about him.

Robert Poirier (30:20)
Right, right.

Larry Hagner (30:26)
And I went and met him because I was on his podcast first, the real ones. And I didn't know this. was crazy to meet him, but like he wrote me this email, like he wrote this email. I didn't even know it was him inviting me on his podcast. I didn't know who John Bernthal was. knew who he was, but I didn't know his name. And then, um, so I forwarded the email to my assistant and I'm like, Hey, can you check out this podcast and just, you know, let me know if I should be on this. And she wrote me right back. She's like,

Yeah, you should be on this. And like, that's all she said. And then I realized who he was. And then I met him. And the very first thing he said was he's like, dude, I'm a huge fan of your show. He's like, listen to every episode when I'm driving. was like, are you what? Like me? Like, like you're the punisher, right? But like, he is just like such an just such an everyday guy. Like, like I'm talking like you want to go have a beer and lunch with somebody like John Bernthal would be an everyday dude. Like

Robert Poirier (31:13)
Yeah, yeah.

Larry Hagner (31:26)
And then after I met him and I was like, wow, that guy's an everyday dude. And then I watched the Punisher after I met him. And I was blown away at that guy's talent of acting. I was like, if that guy can be like this everyday dude, this is funny and joking around and lighthearted and just, and then he can play that. Like, are you kidding me? Like, and then, so he came on my podcast and I just loved like.

Robert Poirier (31:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Larry Hagner (31:52)
how imperfect he was with fatherhood. Like he fumbled, he stuttered about it. Like it was just like, he puts his pants on the same way as everybody else. I love talking to him. And then the third one that I really loved was Sean Patrick Flannery, ⁓ who was in powder back in the nineties. He was also in nefarious, which was his newest movie, but he was so fascinating to talk to. ⁓ just, and he raises boys, you know, he's been doing jujitsu for 20 years. his boys are wrestlers, just how entrenched that man is with his family.

And there's really like, there's like no Hollywood in him either. He's just an everyday guy.

Robert Poirier (32:26)
Yeah, it's pretty neat when you meet those people. Like really the true person inside. I had a brush with, I live in Atlanta. And so there's a lot of filming that goes on here. And a few years ago, I had a brush with somebody who's a very well-known A-list actor who was in town for a couple of months filming. We worked, it was my first introduction to pickleball. We played pickleball together. And then,

worked out together had each other's number. And literally he would send me a text. Hey, are you going to the gym? And, know, it still was like, wow, this is pretty surreal. But to come to find out who they are inside, most of them, it's really cool to see. It's really, they have the same struggles. They have the same struggles with fatherhood. You know, it kind of goes back to what you're talking about and what you talked about earlier, you know, of learning how to do fatherhood. There's really no book.

Larry Hagner (33:13)
out

Yeah.

Robert Poirier (33:23)
Outside of the, I mean, there are then granted you're putting them out there, but everybody's kind of learning as you go. And, know, I am such a advocate of, you know, taking these courses, reading these books, because we have no problem. If, know, if you're wanting to work on your golf swing, okay, go spend $150, $200 an hour to, you know, get your golf swing better. And we have no problem with that.

I'm spending that on an hour. If you're wanting to get more fit or you have an injury and you're wanting to, you know, exercise, you know, figure out how can I exercise with the injury? You'll go hire a personal trainer. But so many times as men, are hesitant to reach out and find out how can I be a better dad? And guess what? The struggles you have, a lot of us are having those same struggles. I mean, a lot of us are.

Larry Hagner (34:17)
So true.

Robert Poirier (34:18)
And that's why I love what you're doing. I really do. love from your podcast to the books and the coaching you have going on. I love that. And obviously, as we were talking before we started recording, mean, you're having a big impact on a lot of people. we talked about your past and we talked about your sons.

What is the, is there something else inside you that just drives you as a father? Like, I mean, probably your past, but is there something?

Larry Hagner (34:47)
⁓ so over the past like 10 years, I've, I've hired a coach every year for something just to continue to learn, continue to grow, to continue to evolve. And one of the things that I see, you're asking me what drives me. It's, ⁓ this is what drives me. I heard a quote and I think it was from Napoleon Hill, but I heard it from a podcast guest.

who is actually on another podcast. And I actually ended up having this guest on my show, just for the simple sake that I heard him say this quote on another show. And I was like, my gosh, like I've never heard that. Like, and it literally, I still remember, this was probably like six, seven years ago. I remember where I was in my car. I remember the left turn that I was making at the light that I was at when I heard this quote in my car. And that is,

The definition of hell is meeting the man that you could have become when you're laying on your death bed. And here's what I'll tell you. I spent 18 years in the medical device world. ⁓ you know, surgical sales and surgeons and that kind of thing. Eight of those years were, was selling devices for patients who had everything from the diagnosis of cancer to the palliation and the treatment of cancer all the way to, had a product that would allow a patient to go home and die.

Like it sounds kind of morbid, like that was my world. So like I sold this indwelling catheter that went in someone's chest that they could basically drain that the fluid that accumulates on their chest called the plural diffusion at home versus being hooked up to a 16 French chest tube and a 16 French chest tube is about the size of your garden hose that's sticking out of your chest. It's a, it's horrible. It's painful and you're in a hospital and that's usually how people die. ⁓

Instead, I used to sell like this really small, like, indwelling chest tube that a patient could go home with. And it was a closed system and they could go home. They could basically go die on hospice, but they could be at home and they could be around their loved ones. And so I got to spend eight years interacting with patients who are literally on their deathbed. Like literally and everything from.

people in their twenties and thirties to people at the end of their life. And I got to hear their stories and I got to hear their burdens and their regrets and the things that they would have done different. And those voices ring very loud in my mind and heart of what is essential. like, for instance, it's not even at the end of my life, it's at the end of every single day. Like I want to go to bed exhausted out of my mind.

because I gave, didn't leave anything on the table. Like there was nothing left to be said. There was nothing left to be done and everything was done. Everything was said and that's the way I want it. So I, I know what it feels like firsthand to have the experience that I did, which was very lackluster and it really sucked. And I don't want to give, I want to give this gift to my kids. And to be honest, I want to live within this way.

Robert Poirier (37:42)
Yeah.

Larry Hagner (37:53)
There's no other way that I would, I would actually probably find acceptable to live than this way. So one of the coaches that I hired a while back and back in 2019, he was the best one I've ever had and his name was Frazier. Um, he said, dare to be a stallion among the donkeys of your life. I'm like, dare to be a stallion among the donkeys. What does that mean? And this, this quote he lived by he's like, think about it. Most people live their life as a donkey.

Robert Poirier (38:11)
You

Larry Hagner (38:22)
They settle for the life that comes at them. They go through the wash, rinse, repeat. They're just life happens to them. And then they get to the end of the life and they're like, well, that was not the greatest. And then the stallion, he lives very, very different. He eats different, he sleeps different, he exercises different. He challenges himself to be faster, stronger all the time. He's like, that's the life that I want. And so I was like, wow, there's, and there's like a certain, I think confidence in that of like,

Robert Poirier (38:22)
Yeah. Yep.

Larry Hagner (38:51)
I'd rather be a stallion and not a donkey. Not to say that you're looking down upon other people, but it's just like, this is the way I'm to live. So, ⁓ the thing that really intrigues me about doing this work is the, look at this work as fitness. The minute I stop eating healthy and stop going to the gym is the minute my health starts to decline. Like it literally will happen that fast.

The minute that I stopped doing this work and stop learning and growing, evolving and challenging myself and learning how to, like right now, I mean, I have a 19 year old, so I'm, learning. Okay. I'm in a whole new, whole new world with him. I'm now raising an adult son. That's different dynamics than raising a child. So I need to keep learning because this, this is now new. So every single season, there's something new to learn. And if I'm not in front of it,

Robert Poirier (39:29)
Yeah.

Larry Hagner (39:44)
Well, then I'm just getting unhealthy. I'm getting fatter and I'm going to die sooner. And my quality of life is going to go down just like fitness.

Robert Poirier (39:50)
Wow. ⁓ So I imagine you have you've instilled that instilled those qualities into your into your own sons. You know, and they learn so much by not, you know,

I see from my sons, you know, I can tell them and tell them and tell them and you know, I think of the different tenants basically that I want to instill in the boys and I can tell them but it's more of showing, know, it's showing them acceptance. It's showing them tolerance. It's showing them putting God first, you know, things like that. I'm sure that your boys are seeing that in you and you're probably seeing that bubbling up in them as well.

You know, mean, obviously we, mean, I think about your, your second son starting center for the last, what three years, three or four years. I mean, obviously he's no donkey. Yeah. know, I mean, think about your oldest one as well. I mean, for him to go out and go against the norm of, you know what? Yeah. Okay. I could play the sax, but also want to wrestle. That has to be pretty cool to see that.

Larry Hagner (40:54)
It's definitely cool to see that. I mean, I love seeing that I have no idea how much of that is me and how much of that is them and just how they're wired ⁓

Robert Poirier (41:03)
There's a lot of you

in that. There has to be.

Larry Hagner (41:05)
I mean, we've always told these kids, you know, ⁓ we've always given them, I like to think anyway, to give them the example of don't leave anything on the table. Like, go out and make your life, you know, however you want it, right? Regardless of how people will tell you that it can't be that way.

Robert Poirier (41:25)
So tell me this, I want to go into your book. know we're getting a little bit short on time here. I think, you know, with you talking about the amount of people that you've interviewed, that you've talked to the research you've done. mean, you know, being a father, being a dad is a huge part of your life and you're really a student of that. with your new book coming out. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Will you promote that?

Larry Hagner (41:52)
Sure. So, ⁓ yeah, It's the pursuit of legendary fatherhood. ⁓ it's divided up into four parts. ⁓ the first part is called the drift. happy to talk about that if you want, that seems to be the thing that's most intriguing that people want to know about. Second part is husband. Third part is father and fourth part is leader. ⁓ I wrote the book. It's 22 chapters long, four parts. the chapters aren't very long. I did that on purpose.

because I wanted to write a book that a man could easily pick up. And granted, I would love for a guy to read through the whole thing, but I'd also would love, you know, after you're done with it, it's on your bookshelf. And if you're like, you know, Hey, like, man, like, let me, let me see, lead her.

Or it's, ⁓ or date her or the four elements of an extraordinary marriage. Like, me review that really, really quick. Look, I'm going to just jump in here and read that real quick. So I want to create a book where I got, I pull it off his shelf, look in the table of contents, be like, that's it right there. I need that. And then just be able to read it. Yeah. And, but yeah, that's, that's, it's got like, this book literally has everything that I would say the dad edge has learned over the past 10 years around leadership and raising young girls and raising boys.

Robert Poirier (42:48)
Yeah, what'd do in this situation?

Larry Hagner (43:06)
⁓ communication, connection, mindset, health, wealth, all of these things that are so important to us as dads.

Robert Poirier (43:13)
Hey, tell me the section ⁓ you called the drift. Will you tell me a little bit about that?

Larry Hagner (43:17)
Sure. the drift has been something that, um, a lot of people have, I've actually spent the majority of the, the, the time on podcasts talking about the drift because they're like, what is that? And I think you'll probably understand what the drift is after I explain it. So, um, I can't take credit for the quote or the, the drift. I heard that from Gary John Bishop, who is a New York times bestselling author. He, he wrote the book un fuck yourself. So hopefully I can cuss on your, but I'm

quoting a title, but yeah, that says, uh, those are his books. And so he's like the self-sabotage guru and he's been around for a long time. Every time he writes a new book, I have him on the show, but he and I got pretty close back in 2018 and we have been ever since. And he used to post on his Instagram, interrupt the drift. And I remember one day texting him and like, Gary, what is the drift? What does it interrupt the drift mean?

Robert Poirier (43:42)
Go ahead, go right ahead.

Larry Hagner (44:04)
And he basically described it the way I'll describe it, but he, he described it very high level. It's like, man, it's the wash, rinse, repeat. It's the, it's the thing that we're people are living a life and life is happening to them. And they have no control and they're just settling for it. And they just drift right through and they complain about it and they're a victim about it. And it's just the drift. And I was like, okay. And so I started really researching the drift and I started thinking about, well, what does the drift look like for a married man with kids? And it looks like this.

So, and I was a part of this. I still get into the drift every now and again, but when I first started this, this platform, one of my mentors was like, you have to have an avatar. And I was like, well, that's probably just me. Like I'm the avatar. Like I'm the train wreck that I'm trying to help ultimately. Right. And he's like, yeah, but you need to, you need to be talking to somebody specifically when you're writing your books, like you, when you're typing out your chapters, like this is the guy that you've you're writing to. Like this is the guy in the airwaves that you're talking to.

Robert Poirier (44:49)
Yeah.

Larry Hagner (45:03)
So 10 years ago, um, I came up with a guy named Lance who's, who's 38. He hasn't aged. was 38 then he's still 38. Um, but Lance is 38 and this is the drift. Okay. And this is what also happened to me, but let's just see if you can relate. He's 38 years old. He's been married for 10 years to a woman named Kate. He's got three kids, nine and under. He drives to a job every single day that he doesn't really love whatsoever. He doesn't necessarily despise it low that are hated, but he really doesn't like it too much.

He knows that there's more in him that he really wants to do besides this job, but he feels very trapped and he's like, well, I'm the breadwinner now. My wife stays home and like, I can't do anything else. So I'm, I'm stuck here. And that feeling of being stuck there really doesn't sit well with him. In fact, he just feels like he's leaving a ton of his potential on the table. It's a bit demoralizing. It kind of wears on his confidence. It's a stressful job.

He brings his stress home with him. He doesn't really like that at all. And he's like, man, isn't there something better out there for me to do, but there's nothing I'm trapped. I've got three kids. It's irresponsible for me to do something else. That's what he's telling himself by his career. Then he comes home to his wife, Kate, and he dated Kate for five years before he got married. And ever since they started having kids, their sex life has kind of fallen off the cliff.

They talk about high level managerial things. They don't, they don't really talk about their connection. They don't go out on dates. Everything is about the kids. All their activities is around the kids. they don't even talk about their relationship anymore. They only talk about parenting and the, and the things, you know, the bills and the dinners and all this other stuff. There really is no substance or depth to the relationship. Not nearly as much as they're used to, but it's not so bad to where he wants to run out and have an affair or get divorced. He just is like, okay, well, I guess this is marriage and here's the crazy thing.

All of his relatives and all of his friends are telling him the same thing. What do you expect? You've been married for 10 years. You think you have sex anymore. Come on, man. You got three kids. Like you think you're have connection anymore. Dude, that goes away. It's marriage. Come on. Not right. So he buys into that, but it still doesn't sit well with him. Cause he's like, well, that kind of sucks. Cause that's not why I got married. I want to have this crazy, amazing relationship. My wife. That's not happening. The three kids he has, he loves more than anything.

But he has a really hard time connecting with them. He also has a really hard time with patients because the stress of his marriage and the stress of his job. And not to mention the fact that physically he's let himself go a little bit too. So he used to be in pretty good shape and now he's just like, well, it's selfish for me to take care of myself. I can't take care of myself. I have to take care of these kids. I've take care of Kate. I've got work to do. So his mental health and his physical health and his emotional health kind of to go slide downhill a bit too, cause he's not taking care of himself. But he, again, and again,

Robert Poirier (47:19)
Yeah.

Larry Hagner (47:37)
He feels trapped. I have no other choice. I have to do life this way. So ultimately Lance feels very trapped in this thing called the drift and the wash runs repeat, and he has no clue how to get out of it. And everyone around him is telling him, this is life, dude. What'd you expect? But he knows that there's more there. So interrupting the drift is what this book is all about. It's like, you want to go build a kick-ass marriage? There's a whole section on that. You can, you can actually go do that. Here's

If you want to learn the taekwondo skills to go build a kick ass marriage, it's right here. This is what you can do. If you want a connection with your kids and you want to be more patient with them, here's the taekwondo skills on how to do that. Like here's all the skills on how to connect with your kids and at the level that Lance wants to connect with them, with the patience and the playfulness and, the conversations and all this stuff that Lance is like, Holy shit. Yes, this is fatherhood, right? There's also

permission in this book of like dude if you are not taking care of yourself physically mentally emotionally Not only will you slide down but your entire family will too because they don't want the 50 % of you They want the 100 % so you better make time to take care of yourself because if you don't you're in serious trouble And as far as what you do for a living you're not trapped You can go out and do anything you want you really really can I know that that's something we tell our kids

Robert Poirier (48:44)
course.

Yeah.

Larry Hagner (48:59)
But that is something that all of us can do. And in no time in human history has there ever been a time where you can make money doing whatever it is that you love. You just have to put effort behind it and you've got to put strategy behind it and you can go do it.

Robert Poirier (49:13)
Sounds like it should be required reading for any man that gets married.

Larry Hagner (49:18)
Can I add one more thing to this? I think you'll appreciate it. You're a dad. like when I first, um, so I actually wrote this book. mean, I wrote this book in 2022. Um, I've updated it since, but like this book was actually going to be published in September of 2022. was going through a publisher. The publisher met me at a speaking event and we ended up talking and he's like, Hey, I'd really like to, I'd really like to publish your book.

Robert Poirier (49:20)
Yeah, of course.

Larry Hagner (49:43)
And he's like, what's the title going to be? And this guy is not married. No kids. And we started talking about the book and I said, the book is going to be called pursuit of legendary fatherhood. And he looks at me really puzzled. goes, that sounds like, it sounds a little long. He's like, why not just call it legendary fatherhood? And I just like looked at him. I smile and I go, you're obviously not a dad. And he goes, he goes, I'm not, but why, why do you say that? And I go, cause you would know that there's absolutely no such thing as that.

Robert Poirier (50:05)
Yeah, yeah.

You'll understand.

Yeah, you'll understand.

Larry Hagner (50:13)
Like, yeah, the, you,

no one gets to the top of the mountain and says, look how awesome I am. Like give me my gold star, my, my championship belt. became a legendary father, not one person. I was like, but there is the pursuit of it. There is the growth of it. There's the, the journey of it, the learning of it. Right. And the day, and I think this goes back honestly to like, what is it in me that won't stop doing this? It's it's that it's like, there's the journey of it. And as soon as you stop pursuing it,

Robert Poirier (50:18)
Right.

Right.

Larry Hagner (50:43)
Man, that's when you start getting into real problems.

Robert Poirier (50:47)
That true. That is so true. That's so true. Look, I want to, if there's any advice, let's say me and you were getting in an elevator, got 10 floors to go up and I tell you, look, hey, I'm about to become a dad. Can you give me some advice? What would you tell me?

Larry Hagner (51:04)
The, so the first piece of advice I would give you is I would want to flip the perception of fatherhood and marriage on its head while we were in that elevator for you. And here's, here's what I mean by that. ⁓ this is as I unpack this, like, even though I I've said this so many times, like every time I hear it, I'm like, I can't believe this is the perception out there. I really, really can't. And I can't believe I bought into this perception. So I'm married.

So awesome. Like, right. Like, I just got married. Like, hey, great. Like, I should know how to do marriage. Like, I love her. Like, that should be enough. Like, we'll figure this out. We're pregnant. Like, you know, I was raised by parents and everybody's raised by parents and like being a dad, like, yeah, man, I should. I'm a man, so I should be able to figure that one out. No problem. Right. It should almost be like instinct for me. Here's the crazy thing. And this goes back to like martial arts. Like we have a lot of guys who come into our community.

Who and jujitsu is a huge thing right now. And I love talking to the jujitsu guys because this perception means a lot to them. So when I asked them like, Hey, like what have you done before now to learn about marriage? And usually it's like, I haven't really done much. Okay. Well, what about fatherhood? What have you done? Well, I listened to some podcasts here and there, but like not, not really much. And I'm like, but you do jujitsu and they're like, yeah. And I was like, how long? I two years, three years, whatever. Right. And then I'll ask them, have you ever done a tournament? And some guys, most guys are like, yeah.

And I was like, how long did it take you before you did a tournament? And I think the earliest I heard was six months, but for one guy, was like two years. Like I trained for two years. And I was like, well, let me ask you a question. Why not just show up to a tournament without ever practicing? Like just show up to a tournament, just see how you do. And they're like, why would I do that? Like that's dumb. Like I would get killed. And I'm like, yeah. And you just did the same thing with marriage and fatherhood. And then they're like,

Robert Poirier (52:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yep.

Larry Hagner (52:58)
I was like, have you ever gone into the jujitsu studio and learned a few things about your marriage or gone into the jujitsu studio of parenting and learned a few things about marrying? Not to jujitsu studio, but a coach or a therapist or a book or whatever and implemented things like actually had accountability. Like you actually learned and then go implemented and then came back and then came back to your instructor and we polished things up. Have you ever done anything like that? And they looked at me like I was absolutely crazy. And they're like, no, why would I do that? And I'm like, well, why would you show up to a tournament without ever being trained?

Robert Poirier (53:26)
You

Larry Hagner (53:28)
So like they, they, they then understand the perception. They're like, Holy shit, man. No wonder I'm getting my rear end just handed to me every single day. It's because I'm showing up to tournaments, getting choked out and I have no idea how to defend myself. I was like, yeah, it's exactly. So my, my advice to you would be like, you're not going to be good at this unless you learn it's just like anything else. And by the way,

Robert Poirier (53:41)
Yeah.

Larry Hagner (53:52)
for all my guys out there listening, they're like, well, I know all these things of what not to do. Like I was raised like this. that was my story. I know all of these things with what not to do. But let me ask you this. When was the last time you went to Home Depot and bought a brand new smoker and you opened up the manual and said, here's 100 ways not to put this thing together, but don't worry. Best luck, best time of your whole life. You'll figure it out. That doesn't happen either. So our perception of like, I don't need to learn anything in this because it will become naturally naturally to me is a total lie.

Robert Poirier (54:09)
hahaha

Larry Hagner (54:21)
The fact that like, have a laundry list of things that I'm not going to do. That's enough. That's a total lie. So the, the answer to your question is if you're perceiving fatherhood in any way, shape or form, that this will come naturally to you and you'll wing it and you'll figure it out. I caution the hell out of you to challenge that thought process and get into a classroom of some sort to learn this stuff as quickly as you possibly can. So yeah.

Robert Poirier (54:46)
Wonderful.

That's wonderful. And just so happens, it's a great segue because I want everybody to, I want one, I want you to tell them how they can find you, you know, and also how they can find your podcast and social media. But I also want you to promote your courses to your coaching.

Larry Hagner (55:03)
Sure.

Well, so this, this will probably be pretty, a pretty easy lift. Yeah. So I, I'll, how about I promote, ⁓ a few of them. yeah, if you can get the book right now, ⁓ well, not right now, I can't send them out until September, but you can preorder it. If you go to the dad edge.com forward slash legendary book, all one word, the dad edge.com forward slash legendary book. You can buy, you can preorder the book for 28 bucks. the courses. So it's kind of funny. You mentioned that.

Robert Poirier (55:07)
and your book.

Larry Hagner (55:30)
I have two really, really popular courses. ⁓ one is creating more patiences. That's for all my dudes out there, just like me, ⁓ who just need a little bit more patience, some skills to keep you calm and chaos. when your kids are acting a fool and all you want to do is like, go, go ballistic. I teach you six skills in that course on how to be more patient. It's 45 minutes long. ⁓ another course that I have is creating extraordinary marriage through elevated communication, connection, and intimacy.

I teach you 11 skills in that one on how to communicate and connect better with your wife, how to attract her back to you versus you chasing her in a needy desperate way. But you'll get immediate access to those two courses, which both of those courses, each one of them are 500 bucks a piece. But if you pre-order the book for 28 bucks, you can have access to either one of those. Not that there's snake oil in those courses. The only reason I did that is because I figure if there's somebody who's eager enough to pre-order the book that tells me that they want information right away. And since I can't send out the book until September, I'm giving those two courses away.

I always tell people start out with the podcast. There's 1400 episodes enough to keep you busy. I do caution you with this though. I would not listen to more than five or 10 podcasts before you apply to be a part of our data edge Alliance mastermind, ⁓ because content in your brain does not mean results in your life at all. In fact, content in means nothing unless you're doing something with it. The mastermind is our, ⁓ in it's it's our virtual it's it's.

live, it's coaching right then and there. Like you can learn one or two things. Literally you hang up that call, you go implement them. You come back the next week, you come back and you let us know how they, how you did, we'll polish it up for you. We'll help you with it. ⁓ so that's where we become versus a content consumer into an executor. That's the biggest difference. And you can, you can check out that if you go to the dad edge.com forward slash mastermind.

Robert Poirier (57:20)
Wonderful. And I will put, I will put links up so everybody can find that. And Larry, thank you. Thank you for coming on and also thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for saying it, for sharing your story, your history as well. And look, I, again, I appreciate all that you're doing out there to promote fatherhood and to make us be the best dads we can be. Thank you for doing that.

Larry Hagner (57:27)
Thank you. This was awesome.

back at you,

man. And thanks for the work that you're doing. It's really awesome.

Robert Poirier (57:43)
No, no, I appreciate you.

Hey, and thank you all for listening to the dad to dad's podcast. You can find us on Spotify or Apple as well as on most other platforms. you can also find us on Instagram, YouTube. Don't forget to hit the like and subscribe button as well as leave a comment. love reading each and every one of them and also, um, hearing your suggestions for future topics. Again, thank you all for listening and we will talk to you next time.