Why So Many Married Parents Struggle With Intimacy (And How to Fix It)

Many parents love each other deeply - yet quietly struggle with intimacy after kids, stress, and years of responsibility take over.

In this powerful episode of the Dad to Dads Podcast, intimacy coach Dan Purcell shares how sexual connection, communication, and emotional safety directly impact marriage, parenting, and overall family health.

Dan opens up about his own journey from a conservative upbringing where sex wasn’t discussed, to helping couples rebuild intimacy without shame, pressure, or obligation. This conversation goes far beyond the bedroom — touching on trust, communication, stress, parenting, and what it really takes to maintain a strong marriage in midlife.

If you’re a parent feeling disconnected, exhausted, or unsure how to talk about intimacy in your marriage, this episode offers practical insights, relatable stories, and a healthier framework for rebuilding connection.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why intimacy problems are extremely common among parents
• How obligation and “duty-based” sex damages connection
• The role of communication and emotional safety in marriage
• How stress, kids, work, and aging affect intimacy
• Why “good enough” intimacy is often the goal for busy parents
• Practical ways couples can reconnect without pressure or shame

This episode is educational, honest, and designed for parents who want stronger marriages — not perfection.

👇 Let us know in the comments:
What has been the biggest challenge to intimacy in your marriage since becoming parents?

🔔 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share this episode with another parent who may need to hear it.

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• Dan Purcell’s App: Intimately Us
• Free Resources for Parents: https://getyourmarriageon.com/dad2dads
• Podcast: Get Your Marriage On

Transcript

Robert Poirier (00:00)
Dan Purcell, welcome to the Dad to Dad's podcast.

Dan (00:01)
Hey.

Thanks, Robert. Happy to be here.

Robert Poirier (00:05)
Man. So you are an intimacy coach, right? So we get to talk about sex and relationships and all that good stuff. Huh? Hey, so tell me, ⁓ tell me a little bit about yourself here and kind of what you do, your background, all of that, and maybe how you became an intimacy coach.

Dan (00:08)
I am.

That's right. That's right.

Sure, well,

great, yeah. I have six kids, live a pretty ordinary life. I like to run, I like the outdoors, I like business, I like entrepreneurship, and I really like relationships. learning how...

relationships work, what is it that makes great sexual relationships operate? It's always been something I've been fascinated with, but never been courageous enough to pursue until about eight years ago. So how I got into it, ⁓ I would think I'd the last person on the planet. I wouldn't believe you if you told me I'd be on a podcast with you today talking about these things. I came from a good family. ⁓

but a very conservative Christian home, and my wife did too, good family, like, it's not unusual, just sex isn't talked about a lot or in a very positive, not talked about a lot, or not mentioned at all. We had the thou shalt not talks, right? But how do you build a great sexual relationship that's satisfying and that's going to...

build and build the longer you've been married. Those conversations, how do you actually give pleasure to each other? We don't have those conversations growing up. So I get married, my wife and I are so excited, and I had all these questions. There's things I didn't know. ⁓ One story I'm really embarrassed to share is ⁓ all the love songs talk about how you make love all night long.

Robert Poirier (02:02)
Let's hear it.

Dan (02:09)
Like, I was looking forward to making love all night long, and my body wouldn't make love all night long. I know, it's like, wait, I thought there was something wrong with me, because like, I had nothing to compare it against except for what the love songs say. So I remember like, my wife and I were both in our junior year of college when we were married.

Robert Poirier (02:09)
Right.

Hahaha

How was that? 30 seconds.

Dan (02:34)
I go to the school library and like somewhere in this library there's gotta be a textbook on human sexuality. There's gotta be and it'll have the answers as to why I can't last all night long. And I find that section library, I'm so embarrassed that I'm even doing this. Like what would others think? So I kinda wait till it's like a quieter time in the library. You know how libraries are organized? Like by subject, right? Like I don't wanna be caught dead in that section. I quickly find the book, I tuck it under my arm.

Robert Poirier (02:55)
Right. Right.

Right.

Dan (03:04)
and I rushed to go to the exit. ⁓ then there's the next hurdle, which is actually giving the book to the worker to scan it with my student ID card. I'm just no eye contact. I go home, and now I'm excited. I'm at home. I'm gonna find this. So I flip through the pages of the book, and I come across hand-drawn illustrations of various sex positions.

Robert Poirier (03:14)
Right.

I'm

Dan (03:33)
and like a 69 and like a doggy style and things like that. Like, I just got pornography from the library and I shut the book and I returned it and I never read it. So I was so anxious about it. So I just didn't know any different. Just anxious in sex and my wife's anxious in sex. So it's like a fish swimming in water that doesn't know it's wet. Like, we just don't talk about it. You just don't.

Robert Poirier (03:35)
Right.

the

Yeah, yeah.

Dan (04:03)
So can you imagine my surprise 13 years later into my marriage, I'm having a conversation with a friend and he opens up to me about his sex life. And this isn't like bro locker room talk. This is like ⁓ him telling me about how he and his wife have sex. And the reason why he's telling me these things is he's trying to help me understand something that I don't get. And it is, he's like Dan.

Robert Poirier (04:14)
Right, right.

Dan (04:29)
Once my wife and I really focused on improving our sexual relationship, everything else in our life improved. Like we communicate better, we parent together better, we're like sleeping better, our health has improved, my wealth has increased with my work. Just like every area of our life has improved once our sex life got better. And I didn't know what to think. First of all, was blushing the whole time through the conversation. Like really, you do that? Like people do these things?

Robert Poirier (04:47)
Wow.

Dan (04:59)
And another emotion I felt was morbid curiosity. That's the, ew, gross, wait, tell me more. No, no, kind of a feeling. But the biggest takeaway from that conversation for me is I was so uncomfortable with the topic, but I was uncomfortable that I was uncomfortable with the topic. Like, I'm married, we have kids, like, why is this?

Robert Poirier (05:09)
Yeah.

Yeah, makes sense.

Dan (05:28)
I'm fascinated by it, yet I'm so uncomfortable about it at the same time. Some things, I gotta figure this out. call that a cognitive distortion or whatever you wanna call it. That's like when you're like, wait, what I used to know isn't maybe quite fitting in the model anymore? Like, what's going on? So that night, after the kids are in bed around nine o'clock, ⁓ I get the courage to tell my wife, like, hey, you'd never guess what kind of conversation I had with.

so-and-so today. And I was right, she'd never guess. And I told her a little about the conversation and really the heart of my question for my wife was, are you satisfied with our sexual relationship? are you, are there maybe you're not satisfied and you just haven't told me because you're afraid to hurt my feelings? Like are there things about our sex life that you've always thought about and wanted to try or do that you just haven't brought up?

Robert Poirier (05:58)
Hahaha

Dan (06:25)
because we don't talk about it. And talk about a scary conversation, like, I was so nervous, so sweating, everything, like my wife too, like we're like, Right, we're nervous and we're like, really like trying to figure it out. That was a five hour conversation. We went to bed after two a.m. that night. And to that point in our marriage was the most vulnerable, open, ⁓ real and honest conversation we had about our sexual relationship. To that point.

Robert Poirier (06:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, because you don't know what the answer is going to be.

Dan (06:54)
And next night, a little more, and just over the next few weeks, we kind of got a little more clarity and we decided we both needed to learn more about this. So, ⁓ back to the books, but this time, no turning back. We found a few good books and we weren't, we're like, we're more mature now, we're gonna be an adult about this, let's figure this out for us. And found good podcasts and then we found good mentors.

⁓ there was a guy in my neighborhood that's a, ⁓ he's a, he's a therapist, like a marriage therapist. He does more like, ⁓ he calls himself like the ER doc, but like emergency room doctor for like high, high conflict relationships. ⁓ but, ⁓ he was so encouraging. He's like, yeah, totally. You should learn more about sex. You should totally like try these things. Like all, all these things, they're, they're good. That's what.

That's what you're supposed to do. That's what you're supposed to enjoy and everything. But I had to really get over that in my feeling. I used to think ⁓ things that are sexual are wrong ⁓ because anything sexual, it's like the Las Vegas billboard. That kind of an image. It'll lead me down a path that I don't wanna be. So I had categorically dismissed anything about learning about it.

or discussing it, or experiencing it, yet inside, it wasn't congruent because I wanted a closer relationship with my wife. I wanted a closer bond. I wanted to have more sexual novelty. I wanna have more sexual fun. But I had just a really hard time reconciling that. that process with my wife, really figuring it out over those few weeks and months, dramatically changed our marriage. And the change was so profound.

⁓ It inspired a career change for me. Like, holy cow, this stuff is good. More people need to know this and experience this. How can I get this message out better? And that leads me to now where now I get to do this full time. I work with married couples, primarily Christian couples, that want to improve sex and intimacy in their marriages. And I've gone back to school. I've...

Robert Poirier (09:00)
Right.

Dan (09:14)
Learn how to be a therapist that's not a licensed therapist so that I can work with people across state lines. I've learned how to, ⁓ what really works in intimate long-term relationships. How to build novelty, how to keep things great, how to improve that communication. But most importantly, how to create a marriage with a bond that's strong. Because the sex is really good too. That's a component of the overall picture.

It's an intimate marriage, not just a functional marriage. That's my passion. That's my bread and butter.

Robert Poirier (09:48)
That is great.

So I want to ask you, you said that, ⁓

It was somewhat of a, you didn't say taboo, but it sounds like it was a little bit of a taboo topic. And when you were growing up, right? You have six children. I don't know their ages, but your plan, are you going to be, or have you guys decide to be more open with your children when it's age appropriate to discuss sex and the importance in a marriage and all that or.

Dan (09:55)
Yeah, I'd use that word. Uh-huh. Yep. Yep.

Absolutely, yeah, always age-appropriate advice. My oldest is 20, my youngest is 8. My older two are now adults out of the home, so he's 20 years old.

Robert Poirier (10:22)
Okay. Wait, your oldest is how old?

How old did you say you are?

Dan (10:29)
I'm 44, so we had him when we were 22. 20, what? Yeah. No, we had him when I was 24, the year I turned 24. I gotta do that math. Married at 22, he was born two years later.

Robert Poirier (10:32)
my gosh. Wow.

Okay, okay, wow. Okay.

Okay. Wonderful. Wonderful. How common? ⁓ How common are intimacy problems with couples? I mean, I imagine very common. How common is? Yeah.

Dan (10:57)
Very common. And

it's so common, people don't talk about it. It is so common. ⁓ We tend to just accept that there is such a normal part of marriage that we assume it's not a problem sometimes, but it is so common. In fact, it's so common that we joke about it all the time.

Robert Poirier (11:03)
Yeah.

Dan (11:26)
Like a quote I heard, I wish I could remember who said it, but she says, ⁓ marriage is when you trade the attention of many men for the inattention of one man.

Which is a joke, but there's a little bit of truth to it, right? That's why it's funny. In other words, there's a normalness to marital intimacy problems. Normal meaning you look at the bell curve and it's like this fat section in the center. Like so many couples deal with it that because everyone deals with it, must be normal.

Robert Poirier (11:42)
Yeah.

Right, right. You know, and as you're saying, I'm just thinking, gosh, I hate to, I hate to, ⁓ really tool on social media. and that's one of the things maybe we can get into with the challenges and common challenges and such. But I would think with the attention people receive on social media too, that's probably a distraction and probably gets in the way of intimacy as well. You know, on both sides, whether it's.

Dan (12:08)
Mm-hmm.

Robert Poirier (12:23)
You know, let's, let's pick one sex. If it's a female getting attention from a lot of other males when they post stuff on Instagram or if it's the male that's looking at Instagram models and spending his time drooling over those versus drooling over his wife. mean, I imagine that's, is that fairly common?

Dan (12:42)
I think so, it could be. It could be. I mean, people could use social media for all sorts of reasons. ⁓ Yeah.

Robert Poirier (12:48)
Yeah. It's funny. I mean, I sit here

and I feel like every other podcast I talked about about social media and I use social media so much for, for, for the podcast, but it's, ⁓ it can be good and it can be really, really bad. Right.

Dan (12:54)
⁓ Well, it's a tool. I think it's neutral. ⁓

I think like anything though, is money good or evil? Depends on how you spend it. I think social media is neutral. It's how you spend it, how you use it.

Robert Poirier (13:08)
Yeah, that's true. Good point. Good point. So yet, yeah.

Talking about how common it is, ⁓ the intimate intimacy problems, you know, I had read something not too long ago. It was, mean, it was in like the top three or top four reason for, I think it was the top three reason for divorce. It was financial. Yep. Religion I think was one of the one. Yep.

Dan (13:29)
Yeah, sex, sexual, financial and... ⁓

Okay, differences, significant

religious differences. Yeah, that would definitely divide a marriage for sure. All of those. And yeah.

Robert Poirier (13:38)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's it's amazing. So what are some,

you know, I want to get into what you can do to spice things up and what you, know, what you can do to reawaken it, reawaken your sex life. But before we do that, what are some of the common issues you see?

Dan (13:58)
The most common issue that I see is the idea that that's alive in the relationship is sex is a duty that one does for the other. And they might use different words for it, but it's a sense of an obligation or it's something that should like there's a strong should somewhere in there. And whether like she has this idea or he has this idea or they both have the idea.

when that idea is alive, they might still be a functional couple, they might still have sex, but it can't be passionate, it can't be alive, it can't be this living, wonderful, intimate sharing of souls when there's an obligation. And for example, I worked with a couple years ago and they were just being really frank with me and she says,

we have sex about once a week for his mental health. He's like, yeah, it's for my mental health. I get depressed when I don't have sex. He's like, yeah, and I don't like it when my husband's depressed. So I make sure he has sex once a week. And they thought that was a good thing to do. that's just the way they were operating. I won't say that's good or bad. But then they're wondering, and we want it to be more passionate. I want our sex to be more passionate.

I want to feel more alive in it. his complaint was, I feel like she takes too long getting ready for sex and I wish it was more than just once a week than just like the designated Friday night time. I wish ⁓ she'd make more of an effort. She's like, well I am making an effort. I bought new lingerie last week. And it's like, yeah, but it sat in the bag.

for a few days. The thing is, they're trying to prove to each other that they're bringing their best when they're not. They're trying to convince each other that you should be happy with what you're getting, because I'm putting out for you. she's basically saying, you should take what I'm offering and just be happy with it. Why can't you just be happy with that?

And he's saying, ⁓ why don't you bring more of your heart to it? You just can't create a passionate relationship when there's some sort of this element of like a, you're doing it for an obligation.

Robert Poirier (16:32)
Yeah.

So a way of...

fixing that or remedying that I'm just kind of wondering in my mind was he, if, he has this need or desire for at least once a week, was he doing anything on the front end and on the back end to, ⁓ you know, make her excited for what's about to come, you know, whether it's starting to flirt with her in the morning, you know, different things was he

Dan (17:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Robert Poirier (17:07)
Or was he just like, yep, it's seven o'clock on Tuesday. It's time for, you know, it's bang session. You know, was he that way? And then was he, when he was, know, when they were finished was he's like, all right, you know, I'm going to go watch the game. You know, I wonder, you know, I guess my thing is I get it where he thinks he is, but he's not meeting her needs with them.

Dan (17:13)
⁓ huh.

Right. The thing is, he thinks he is. He thinks he's doing all the things. I bought you flowers.

I take you on a date night. ⁓ I do all the dishes. Or you ask me to watch the kids so that you can go have a night out. I'm always happy to do those things. So when I ask you for sex, can't you just do me a favor back? Like, I would give you my kidney if you needed it. Why can't you just give me sex?

Robert Poirier (17:51)
It'd be interesting to know what her love language is.

Dan (17:55)
I think love language is an important thing, but here's the crux of the issue for the couple, and this is what I want our listeners to understand. This is what I see from my professional point of view. It's ⁓ not about love languages. It's not about, he flirting with her enough? It's that because it's some sort of an obligation frame, it's a tit for tat. It's a...

If I scratch her back, then you need to scratch mine. There's this expectation for reciprocity. It's this transactional nature. so sex is reduced to something. Yeah, it does. And you might do loving things or act lovingly towards each other, but there can't be love in it because it's not freely, it's never completely freely given because it's not freely.

Robert Poirier (18:29)
Yes.

Well, that takes love out of it completely.

But yeah.

Dan (18:53)
received, it's expected. There's a little bit of entitlement kind of woven throughout the whole

Robert Poirier (18:58)
No,

that makes sense. So with a couple like that, what do you do? Like, how do you, I guess it would be kind of on both ends. You know, there's work, there's work on both ends there, but what do you do?

Dan (19:07)
yeah, yeah, yeah. totally. And this is

where I come in and this is where I find my work so satisfying is there's no strategy, by the way. There's not like a A, B, C pattern per se. But there's a few frameworks that I work. my job is to help the couple see the consequences for the kind of pattern that they're doing and give them language for what's really going on.

because they don't see that they're in this kind of a pattern and the harm it's having ⁓ because it's just the way they operate. They just don't see any different. ⁓ Buckminster Fuller says, he's a systems theory guy, ⁓ said it this way, if you fight against the current system, you'll never solve it. You have to create a new model.

that superior that makes the old system obsolete. That's how you solve problems. Another way of saying it, Einstein said it this way, you can't solve a problem at the same level of thinking you use to create the problem. You have to like raise your level of thinking to a new way or a new model and that makes the old model obsolete. And now you're operating kind of at a different paradigm and that's what it does. So my job isn't like, okay, you need to give her

you know, more back massages, or you need to learn her love language and give her more quality time, that will just reinforce the current pattern in the current system. I have to teach them how to like break that pattern, break that old model, and give them a new model that's gonna be superior to the way they're operating today.

Robert Poirier (20:53)
That makes sense. So can you go a little bit further into that couple? Like what did you suggest for them? Like what specifically?

Dan (21:00)
Yeah,

yep, ⁓ what I say is uncomfortable because I don't like hearing it. But step one is ⁓ stop having sex if it feels like a whiff of obligation.

Robert Poirier (21:06)
for sure.

Dan (21:14)
And it's hard because it's risky. It means we might not be having any sex. And there's that choice now. Like a lot ⁓ of people would rather have some sex that's crappy than the chance of not having sex, even if they hold out for something that might be better. Because it feels so risky. It's a hard choice. But...

I have to help them see that they have a choice. they've got to make the decision that is going to be more in line with what they really want.

So once they, I think most people, not everyone that I work with succeeds, but most people, if they really see that they really do have a choice, I frame it as a personal, it's a personal dilemma that they face. It's not about fixing their spouse. It's like, like for the wife for example, it's like when you have sex, because it's to manage his emotions so he doesn't get moody, ⁓ you will never.

be able to feel really free in sex. You'll never be able to feel like you can really be seen and be yourself because you'll always be beholden to him in some way or another. ⁓

Robert Poirier (22:34)
Well, yeah, that whole act, the way that is, that whole act is just for his benefit. There's no benefit for her because

Dan (22:40)
Yeah, and she might even have

orgasms and she might even have physical pleasure from it, but there's still like, orgasm isn't the measure of a thriving sexual relationship alone. Like, it's incomplete, there's so much more to it. She's missing heart, she's missing soul. And ⁓ so when I help frame it in a way they understand, and they go, okay, I really do have a choice here.

Robert Poirier (22:58)
Right, right.

Dan (23:07)
Part of it is being, and this is also a hard truth, is part of being married is being okay with hurting your spouse's feelings. And I'm not saying be a jerk. Yes, it's love. What is more loving, keep the obligation frame going or no, I'm not gonna do that anymore and you're gonna be upset because I told you no tonight even though you want it. But if I engaged,

Robert Poirier (23:19)
Yeah, but that's love too, right?

Yes.

Dan (23:35)
totally be about, I would be doing it only to manage your emotions and I don't want to engage in that anymore and you're going to be upset about it. And sometimes it is just so uncomfortable that your spouse is upset with you that they'll fold too quickly or they'll yield too quickly if it's a yielding person or they'll withhold or distract themselves with the kids or hobbies or other things or what, you know, we have different patterns that we like to do.

Robert Poirier (23:59)
Right.

Dan (24:00)
And you know your spouse well enough, you know their buttons you can push to really get on the back off. But it's really about integrity. It all comes down to integrity. So I help couples, what is it integrity? What is it within themselves that if they were to live in this way, would be more in line, would be a more honest way to live, would be more in line with who they really want to be to their core, and start shifting your behavior to be more ⁓ in line with your integrity.

That takes courage. And I see a lot of courageous couples in my work that inspire me every day.

Robert Poirier (24:31)
God does.

What other, I mean, there's so much to cover and I we have a limited time, but what other issues or challenges do you see that are facing couples that maybe lack true intimacy in their relationship?

Dan (24:52)
⁓ it can be hiding. Hiding is a common one. One couple, for example, he, started a business, and, ⁓ he did the business primarily. He handled the finances of the business primarily. She did some of the work, but it was mostly him and it wasn't going well. But he thought he could save it. And he didn't want to tell his wife about how the business was struggling.

Robert Poirier (24:53)
common ones.

What do mean hiding?

Dan (25:21)
and he wanted to project the idea of success because he didn't want his wife to worry. Because he thought, I'll figure it out. We'll work through this. Until things got so bad that he couldn't hide it anymore. And then she found out about it and now she felt really betrayed. Like, how come you didn't tell me sooner how horrible, how bad of a thing is.

I wouldn't have gone spending on all these things had I knew things were really as bad as they really are, And I think that's a natural human tendency. We kind of want to protect others, especially in men. Men, I think it's part of our genes. want to be a protector.

Robert Poirier (26:00)
When you're saying that, I'm thinking about

that sounds a lot like ego.

Dan (26:05)
It is ego. Absolutely. 100 % ego. It is ego. But he thought his motives were pure. Because he wanted to protect his wife from feeling like things were chaotic and he wanted her to feel safe and secure. He wanted to provide security and safety. But it wasn't based on truth. It wasn't real. So that's, when I say hiding is another issue, it's...

It's a, that's like an example of ⁓ it. It's different than lying, like flat out lying. I mean, it might, it's maybe a little deceptive, but it's a little bit, but it's the hiding. And this is one reason why pornography use is problematic for lot of married couples. Because often, it's an activity done in hiding. And when it does come to light,

Robert Poirier (26:38)
Right, right.

Dan (26:59)
it feels very hurtful to the other person. ⁓ So that's an example of something else that's, pornography use is another issue that I think affects a lot of couples.

Robert Poirier (27:09)
Oh, I can't, I cannot

imagine. mean, just, you know, how common that is, you know, the issues in relationships with pornography. it is, you know, once we got, once we got these things, I mean, it's, it's everywhere. I mean, it's literally everywhere. It's, it's crazy. And, you know, just so common. mean, I had somebody on a while back and we were talking about it and, um, she was talking about.

Dan (27:22)
Uh-huh. Ta-da! You can find it quickly.

Robert Poirier (27:39)
You know how we were kind of similar same age and she was talking about how when you were young back way back, way back then when I was young, it was magazines and you put the thought, the image in your head and now it's literally accessible and a couple of clicks, you know, it's there. So yeah, I'm sure pornography is huge. Plays a huge role.

Dan (27:53)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it can really disrupt

a relationship for sure.

Robert Poirier (28:05)
Not just, you know, I think about that also of what sex is too, with pornography, what truly intimacy, true sex, what that is when you compare that to pornography, you know, and kind of going to back what was in your mind of originally of lasting all night long when you were like, Hey, wait a minute, that wasn't even a minute.

Dan (28:28)
Alright. It's

over! ⁓

Robert Poirier (28:33)
Yeah,

I was just getting started. ⁓ you know, then you, you, and then you watch pornography and it's, know, completely different views of reality there with reality, what it really is.

Dan (28:36)
That's it.

Right, yeah, yeah.

It's like if your only view of basketball was watching the NBA and then you go to go play, like, how come I can't dunk?

Robert Poirier (28:52)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, good. Great point.

Great point. ⁓ I imagine with the way everything is right now, that life stress work, financial, all of that plays a big part. Is that fairly accurate?

Dan (29:11)
Yeah, and you and I are both midlife, and that's the reality of midlife. It is a very complex phase of life. Lots of pressures, lots of distraction, lots of things pulling us. yeah, yeah, kids, health issues, aging parents, you name it. Like, the list can go on and on and on and on and on. And loss is real, and it hurts, it's hard.

Robert Poirier (29:28)
Kids.

Dan (29:39)
So building a intimate relationship when you prioritize that, it can actually be a huge help because you're partnered with someone they can be shoulder to shoulder with and bear the burdens of life together. ⁓ So I don't think stressors break marriages. I think it's how we choose to respond to the stressors and what we prioritize in that. I like that quote from, is it Victor Frankel, Man's Search for Meaning?

between stimulus and response, there is a space. We gotta remember we have choices. We're agents. And sometimes the choices are crappy choice A and crappy choice B. But there's still a choice. And we can still choose in it ⁓ what our choices are gonna be. And unfortunately, we can't dictate choices of other people. And there are gonna be times your spouse won't choose you. And that's a hard reality.

Robert Poirier (30:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dan (30:38)
You might choose them, you might be doing all the right things and they just choose otherwise. And that does happen. And ⁓ so the more clarity you can get, the more you can wrap your mind around what's really going on. And that's why I think like, like you've talked about on your podcast, a therapist that could really see you at like really help you see yourself. Like he wasn't going to beat around the bush. He was going to talk straight to you, right? Like,

That kind of a person in a person's life, kind of that third view, and that doesn't have to be a paid professional. It could be a trusted friend. These are gifts in our lives. They can really help us navigate the nuances of that difficult times in our life when we do have stressors and we do have things and people aren't making choices ⁓ that you would make, or maybe you're not making the right choices either. ⁓ life kind of has this way of like,

not always being fair, not always being predictable, and ⁓ not always in control of it. But I do think we can always choose our integrity and choose our own self-respect. And ⁓ it might feel like a consolation prize sometimes. That's all I got. I all that work and all I got was a t-shirt that says, have my own self-respect. ⁓

But it really is no small consolation prize because it's the one thing people can never take from you is your self-respect.

Robert Poirier (32:13)
You know, as you're saying this, as we've been talking, ⁓ feel like one word just keeps popping in the back of my head. It's communication, communication, communication.

Dan (32:23)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Robert Poirier (32:26)
It's just, think a lot of it is probably the lack of safe communication. Is that fairly accurate?

Dan (32:33)
I think so. I have a nuanced view on communication. I believe we're always communicating something, whether we like it or not. And this is what I mean. Like the story of the couple struggling financially and he was hiding. In the greater story of that, what is he communicating to his wife in that moment?

Robert Poirier (32:43)
True.

I mean, to me, it's like he's that I don't. Yeah. But one, I don't trust you. All right. I don't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan (32:58)
There's lots of things he's communicating, but... Yes, exactly, right. I don't trust you. I don't think you can handle...

Yeah, you're weak. You're fragile. You can't handle the truth. I just want the truth. You can't handle the truth.

Robert Poirier (33:11)
You're not capable of handling

what I'm dealing with.

Dan (33:16)
Yep, exactly. Another thing he's probably communicating in that is I have a hard time confronting truth. Confronting reality. Do you see we're always broadcasting, whether we like it or not, we're always communicating something. And when we talk about couples who have communication problems, ⁓ the joke is...

Robert Poirier (33:30)
Right. Right.

Dan (33:39)
They don't have communication problems. They just don't like what is being communicated. They don't like the message, the greater message that's being sent and received.

Robert Poirier (33:50)
So it's

also improving not only how it's being sent, but how it's received and that they're clearly receiving it and how it's being received. And then maybe structuring it, maybe it's structuring of how somebody receives it better or how somebody delivers it better as well. that.

Dan (33:56)
Yeah.

I think that's right, because if you're mean about it, or you're a jerk about it, or you're ⁓ withholding truths about it, I think all that matters, definitely, and we pick up on that.

Robert Poirier (34:18)
What, what about age? think about, you know, as males get older, you know, testosterone decreases. mean, I know there's TRT and different things they can do to increase that increase their testosterone. ⁓ but you know, their desire for sex decreases. think about women as they age and their hormones, you know, change and they go through, you know, we're, I can't even think about that. You know, that.

Dan (34:27)
Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm.

Robert Poirier (34:47)
No, have no desire. How much of an issue is that with car? How often do you see that fairly common as well?

Dan (34:55)
Yes, ⁓ because...

Robert Poirier (34:58)
And those two cycles

never happened. The males never happened the same time with the females either. Right. you're right. Right. Right.

Dan (35:04)
Yeah, we're talking about menopause and ⁓ andropause for men is the term for that.

That's like a, it's a lot more dramatic for women, right, menopause is. And for men it's more of steady decline. ⁓ Yes. ⁓ However, there are couples in their 60s and 70s that are having the best sex of their life. So it's not the end, right? Because there's something about

Robert Poirier (35:27)
That's cute. That's good. I mean, it's cute. Yeah.

Dan (35:32)
⁓ I've gone through life with you. I've gone through ups and downs with you. I don't have a, my body, like gravity is doing its thing. I'm sagging here. I've got cellulite there. Like my penis doesn't function the way I want it to all the time like it used to. But man, can I bring up my heart here. I can bring me to this and that's not a small thing and I can look into your eyes as I make love to you.

Robert Poirier (35:54)
Yeah, yeah.

Dan (36:02)
There's something that a 60 year old can bring to bed that an 18 year old can't, because an 18 year old's still trying to figure out who he is, right? But a sixty year old knows who he is. There's something about that, that maturity that you can really bring to the sexual experience. It's not just about your body functioning all the time. That can be very erotic and very life giving to a relationship. I am not, yes.

Robert Poirier (36:12)
Right. True.

Dan (36:32)
There are definite challenges that come with aging and menopause and so on, but it's not the end. Things have to shift. It's going to be a new model you have to adopt, but it can be a better model if you let it.

Robert Poirier (36:47)
Yeah, it makes sense. And then men do have a little extra help if needed with the blue pill too. If they need that, I mean, I guess that doesn't help desire, but if there is desire in the performance isn't there, they can pop a pill and be good to go. Yeah.

Dan (36:54)
Yeah, that does help. Yeah, it does help.

The pill

helps because it helps with blood flow. And it helps maintain an erection longer. Because as you age, the microscopic blood vessels in your penis start to break down. And it's those microscopic blood vessels, they're smooth muscles, they're like a gate that when they relax, it allows blood in. And now, if you have blood that rushes in and stays there forever,

It will clot, it will break down, no longer oxygenate your tissues, like it'll cause a lot of pain, a lot of problems. So to counteract that, your body naturally produces an enzyme at the same time that counteracts ⁓ the smooth muscles staying open. That's why it's normal to have an erection and then over time, it goes away. Like, if it never went away, can you imagine how much pain we would be in?

Robert Poirier (38:04)
Yeah, no,

that's true.

Dan (38:06)
So they found a drug, it's a PDE-5 inhibitor, because PDE-5 is the enzyme and it blocks a little bit of the body's natural response to reverse the erection. So the blood vessels stay open longer and open a little longer to keep blood flow in the penis. So that's all the drug does. It doesn't help, I mean, it's not a psychoactive drug.

Robert Poirier (38:13)
Okay.

Interesting.

Dan (38:33)
It doesn't like change your mental state. All it does is affect, ⁓ it just blocks the PDE5 receptor so that your body doesn't shut down as fast. So that's the miracle of that drug. So ⁓ desire still has to come from within. It's still something you have to work from, but it can aid with the physical side of sex. And sometimes, it's like the placebo effect too. Like,

If I take this, then it's gonna help me. And so there is definitely a strong psychological help that comes with it. But that's how it works.

Robert Poirier (39:10)
There's nothing. I mean, tell me this.

Is there anything that helps with desire? I guess not. mean, I wouldn't. Billionaire. Yeah, I was trying to think like, would there be anything? I mean, I'm trying. There was. ⁓

Dan (39:16)
If there was, I'd be a billionaire. Trillionaire. Like Harry

Potter, like this like love potion spell. I'm so love with someone else.

Robert Poirier (39:28)
What was that

old rumor? ⁓

Spanish fly. Have you ever heard of that? Okay. Yeah. Cause I'm a lot older than you. there was, ⁓ and some people listening will probably know what I'm talking about. There was a rumor that it was something called Spanish fly. Have no idea what it is, what it was. ⁓ supposedly you could get it over the border or something like that. And it would make anybody want to have sex, you know, it's, and it's like, really?

Dan (39:35)
Okay, I haven't heard this one. Uh-uh.

huh.

⁓ huh. ⁓

Robert Poirier (40:02)
That sounds a little too good to be true. And of course it was, you know, was

no telling what, was in it, if, it was such a thing, but that was a big rumor years ago.

Dan (40:10)
I bet the person

that came up with it made a million dollars.

Robert Poirier (40:13)
Yeah, if so, yeah, I'm sure.

I'm sure. All right. So let's move on to desire and Spar. No, maybe not desire, but spicing things up. What do you re what do you, that's probably all over the board. It probably is different with each couple personality. Every, I mean, I, but what do you recommend?

Dan (40:21)
Yeah.

Yeah.

personalities and everything, your temperament, everything. Uh-huh.

People have generally, research shows, there's three categories of erotic interest. Erotic is not a dirty word for me. It's like what you find sexually interesting. ⁓ The three categories, and you might have a blend of all three, but primarily there's one that sticks out more than the other. First is the physical side of sex. This is the pleasure I feel in my body is what really

gets me excited about sex. It's the orgasm, or it might be the slow caressing of our bodies, or it's the sensuality of it, like the smells, the sights, everything. That's where I derive a lot of sexual excitement from. That's category one. Category two is found in the relationship itself. It's who you are, it's who I am, it's feeling seen. You've probably heard of people where they had like a really ugly fight.

but then they repair it and then they have like the hottest sex they've ever had after the repair makeup sex, but it's like really hot. That's like what I'm talking about. Like that's a category of this. It's the, I derive a lot of sexual interest because of the relationship. There's something about us that I find very erotically interesting. The third category is the more psychological, it's the fantasy side. This is where role playing is really interesting to people like.

Robert Poirier (41:38)
Mm hmm. Yeah, makeup sucks. Yeah. Right.

Dan (42:04)
yeah, I totally wanna dress up and you try to hook me up or whatever, or create some sort of scenario where there's a lot of interest for that. Or the way we play is gonna involve a lot of this ⁓ make believe kind of a thing. Or you're really into power play, like ⁓ it's really hot when ⁓ you tie me up, I don't know, whatever it is that you find out. ⁓

Robert Poirier (42:09)
Right, right, right.

Okay, yeah.

Right.

Dan (42:31)
there's no categorically one size fits all like this is what you do because it will really depend on where you tend to gravitate more towards. But if you understand what your blueprint or whatever you want to call it is and you understand your spouse's blueprint a little bit better too, the more you understand each other, then you can create sexual experiences that I think both of you would find a lot more enticing, something you're looking forward to participating in.

Robert Poirier (42:58)
You're saying that I wonder.

Are there cases at times where when you find that out, there's somebody that they just don't match up, you know, where, somebody's like, you know, my erotica or my fantasy is about role play and you dressing up as

Dan (43:07)
It's less about matching up.

A stripper,

Robert Poirier (43:18)
school teacher, a cheerleader, a stripper or whatever. And

you know, the wife's like, there's no way in hell I'm going to do that. You know,

Dan (43:26)
Yeah, well

then that couple need to work that out. You might have to find some other common ground. Like, ⁓ that's life. Now, one thing I know absolutely for sure is in most long-term healthy relationships, you've married your opposite. Right? Because if you're the exact same person, you probably wouldn't have gotten married in the first place because there's no attraction there. Like, in order for attraction to happen, there has to be polarity. Polarity is like,

Robert Poirier (43:43)
Yeah, true.

Dan (43:56)
a positive magnet pole and negative magnet pole. And it needs to have some tension. So the fact that I am married to a woman who's very different than me, thinks differently than I am, has different interests than I do, like that has to exist in order for our marriage to work long-term. So too many couples try to collapse ⁓ the polarity. They collapse it too quick. Then there's no attraction.

Robert Poirier (44:14)
Right, right.

Dan (44:25)
because you're trying to make the other person be more like you in every way, now they're no longer a three-dimensional different person. You flatten them, and then you wonder why you don't find them sexually appealing anymore. It's because of the way we do that.

Robert Poirier (44:37)
What, what, what do you, what

do you recommend for couples? say they're, you know, they have young kids and they are just pulled at both ends with events for the kids with their life challenges. You know, so many people now it's two household families. So they're both working. They have kids and again, all the activities involved with that. They come home at the end of the day, by the time they get the kids fed and kids down, you know, it's.

I have got an, you know, they have an hour just to de-stress before they go to bed and, and, you know, start it all over again tomorrow. What do you recommend for couples like that?

Dan (45:10)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Great, so we're not talking about spicing it up right now, per se. We're kind of switching gears a little bit. We're gonna talk about, yep, that's great. So I get this idea from Dr. Steven Snyder. He calls it the two step. And I'm sure it's been said in other ways, but I just like the way he explains it. ⁓ Now, Dr. Snyder, he's a sex therapist in New York City, in Manhattan. Talk about busy, talk about like, go, go, go, go.

lifestyle and these are the people he works with, these couples that he works with. And first thing he, what I love what he says is, just go for good enough. Like good enough is good enough. Like sometimes you think because it's not like hanging from the chandeliers or some like mind blowing experience every single time there's something wrong with us. It's like he walks out of his office, it's late at night.

You know, he can see all these apartments and the lights are on and he wonders to himself, how many couples are having sex tonight in that building? Well, maybe if they're newlywed, they'd probably be having a whole lot more, but this is kind of, you know, midlife in the chaos of things with kids. They can get like, for some couples, once a week is like great for them, or once a month might be great for them. Like, what's good enough? And good enough is good enough.

which kind of goes counter to what the bestselling books, like what you'd see on the cover, like how to have mind-blowing sex tonight. Like they always want to sell us something, because we wouldn't buy something that said how to have okay sex most of the time. But the reality is if you can accept that good enough is good enough, it does wonders for your sexual relationship. Because you're not.

Robert Poirier (46:45)
Right, right.

Good enough. Yeah. Yeah.

What

about mutual couples who mutually agree like, all right, Tuesday night at eight o'clock. That's just for us every Tuesday. That's going to be our intimacy. Yeah. Our sex time. What do you, what is that? Okay. Is that not, or, or what?

Dan (47:15)
Our time.

Yeah.

As long as what you schedule is something that you will both, okay, another way of saying it, as long as what you're scheduling is non-obligatory sex.

Robert Poirier (47:34)
So as long as it's mutually agreed to or not even mutually. Okay.

Dan (47:37)
That's not exactly what I mean. For example,

let's say my wife would never turn down a makeout session. She loves to make out. Like a great passionate kissing session, awesome. It doesn't mean it has to lead to sex, but that's something that she finds very physically ⁓ connecting that she'll never say no to. And I like that too. That's what you schedule. We're scheduling a makeout session. We're not scheduling sex. We're scheduling a makeout session.

Or it might, for another couple, might be, we're gonna, Tuesday night, we're gonna lie together in bed, no clothes, naked, and we have lots of eye contact, we'll talk. That's what you schedule. Now, sometimes, organically, desire's gonna show up and it might move in that way. Other times, it's not. But that's not the measure of if you did it right or not. The measure is, we did the naked cuddling, we did the naked talking time.

Robert Poirier (48:14)
What happens happens if you, yeah. Gotcha. Makes sense.

Dan (48:34)
That is what you schedule.

Robert Poirier (48:36)
And so for those couples, it's also managing the obligation, but also are eliminating the obligation and managing expectations.

Dan (48:44)
Yes, and it's choosing something that you can feel really free in that's still, because you're going for connection first, emotional connection first.

Robert Poirier (48:53)
That makes sense. All right, let's get back to spicing things up. What else do you recommend with couples?

Dan (48:56)
All right.

Well, I have a mobile app that I recommend for couples. It's called Intimately Us. We can talk about in depth if you like, or whatever you want to go. So this is an app my wife and I created a few years ago. ⁓ I mentioned my story and how I made a mobile app that kind of started things off for my career change. Now...

Robert Poirier (49:01)
lord, I didn't know that.

Yeah.

Dan (49:24)
Our goal was to create an app that kind of serves as an idea. It was basically a collection of what we were learning and studying. It has bedroom games. So imagine it's date night. You're like, let's have some spicy fun time together. You can open this app and there's different games you can choose from. they're all, some are gonna be really goofy. Some are gonna be a little more like more sensual. Some are gonna more, maybe role play-esque, but. ⁓

you can play a game. An example of one is a stripping game. It's more on the goofy side. It's Battle Strip instead of the old classic Battleship game. So you have your phone, your spouse has their phone, and you're synced, and you don't reveal your screen to each other, and you kind of have to guess where their items of clothing are. You have try to sync it, and if it's sunk, they have to remove that item of clothing. So that's an example of one, and it can be...

Robert Poirier (50:02)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Dan (50:20)
It's kind of hot. Another

one is like it starts, it's a turn based with a timer. So you set the timer, it has a two minute timer and it gives you a prompt that you do and you take turns. So it might be like give her a back rub. So two minutes later it dings, now it's the new prompt. Give him a lap dance. I don't know, making this up. But it gets spicier and spicier and spicier as it progresses.

Most couples don't finish that game by design. that's also pretty... There's something about the timer component that just makes it really erotic, because you're in the throes of something that feels really good, and then the timer goes off, it is so frustrating. No, don't stop! Anyway, it's a fun game. You said something, sorry.

Robert Poirier (50:54)
Did you come up with all these games or?

⁓ Did you come up with these games or?

Yeah, yeah, did you come up with these games?

Dan (51:13)
Yeah, did. Yeah, my wife and I together did.

Robert Poirier (51:15)
That's great. So it's not

an app where you're like, I'm tired of us doing the same positions. Let's find something different. it is too. So

Dan (51:22)
it is, because I also have stick figure,

⁓ I have a whole catalog of like 120 sex positions, but they're stick figure drawings, they're not gonna be like, it's not pornographic. ⁓ It gives you the idea, it gives you what to do. I also have a whole section, we call it the library, that has ⁓ in depth how-to articles for all sorts of sexual behaviors. Like.

Robert Poirier (51:29)
wow.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Dan (51:47)
if you ever wanna try X, Y, or Z, and it's written in a very straightforward way, but it's not raunchy and it's not crass.

Robert Poirier (51:55)
And this is all in the app. What is the name of the app?

Dan (51:57)
Yes, yep.

Intimately Us.

Robert Poirier (52:01)
Okay, and I guess you can find that on Apple and different ones.

Dan (52:05)
Yep, Apple and Google. Yep, Android.

Robert Poirier (52:08)
Wow, that is interesting. I didn't realize you had that. That's really interesting. And, it'd it'd be great to talk to couples who have, who have used it as well and to hear their thoughts.

Dan (52:19)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, they, ⁓ you'll find some reviews on my website, of course, or on the Google, on the Play stores, like on the app stores. You can read some of the reviews, see what couples say.

Robert Poirier (52:32)
So you literally have in there the different positions too. If people like, you know what we always use the same, do the same three, four position. Yeah. Let's do something creative and you just kind of spin the big wheel and it, okay.

Dan (52:37)
I don't know, missionary position. Let's do something else. Yeah. Yeah.

Right, you

could or by category. Like I want a position where she's in control and ⁓ it's a rear entry. Like ⁓ base, whatever. Let's do those. Or we really like oral sex. So give me something that involves oral sex or whatever it is. You can really find that. There.

Robert Poirier (52:48)
Yeah.

Okay.

You

have come out of your shell from a guy who this wasn't really discussed much as a kid, haven't you?

Dan (53:14)
I guess I have, yeah, I've grown a lot. But ⁓ the most rewarding part for me is seeing the changes that can come in other people's lives and the joy they have in their marriages. They got that smile on their face, there's this sense of aliveness in their relationship. That's the joy for me. That's it.

Robert Poirier (53:36)
That, yeah, I bet

that is extremely rewarding. You know, you have a couple that come in and you're meeting with a couple and you just see it's just cold. There's no energy, the no spark, no chemistry. then, you know, after a few sessions or however long it takes, next thing you see them holding each other, holding hands and looking at each other and you know, that twinkle or sparkle in their eye, you know, as they look at each other and the giggles, I bet that's, I bet that's huge.

Dan (53:48)
Right.

Yeah, it is huge. Yeah. I think that's our path to world peace. I think so. Right. Yeah, exactly. It's also my war on poverty. Like, it's bedroom poverty. That's not what I'm making war on.

Robert Poirier (54:05)
I bet that is extremely rewarding. Yeah, yeah, more sex, more sex, less war, huh? There you go.

There

you go. There you go. What else? ⁓

What else advice or anything like that that you want to leave for couples that maybe it's something that we haven't that we haven't hit on or tips.

Dan (54:32)
Yet, I think we've kind of danced around this theme the whole time, but I believe that best sex is intimacy based. ⁓ If you want to have sex, the kind of sex that you feel very transcendent, the kind where you walk out of the bedroom a different person than the one that you came in at, that's what we really want, right? We want sexual experiences that change us, that we feel... ⁓

Robert Poirier (54:56)
Yeah.

Dan (55:02)
⁓ replenished. We feel ⁓ seen. like the sense... I'm using a spiritual language here, but it's just like deep connected to a greater purpose than ourselves. This profound depth to it. It doesn't come by ⁓ just doing a new position tonight. I mean, that could be part of it, but...

You don't extract it by just the doing. It's by bringing your heart to it. It really has to be a, it has to come from your heart. It's who you are and who you become. what you, it's bringing more self to the bed. ⁓ Which is scary, because it really means intimacy as in into me see. It's like really letting someone in.

And oftentimes the person you're letting in is different from you, has different ideas than you do, has different priorities than you do, and ⁓ learning how to create a marriage where there's room for two people. Like, your point of view is valid and my point of view is valid. And somewhere in between here in this paradox is where us, where we can be.

and it's building that kind of a relationship. That's intimate. Being honest and being grounded in reality, that's intimate. Being able to look each other in the eye as you make love, that's intimate. intimacy is the framework. Intimacy is the goal. The more intimate you are capable of being, or...

the more capable they're at tolerating the discomfort of being intimate, I should say, the more profound their sexual experiences will be.

Robert Poirier (56:57)
And that makes a lot of sense as to how that would improve other areas of your life as well.

Dan (57:04)
Yes.

Robert Poirier (57:05)
⁓ That makes a lot of sense. A lot of sense. How can people find you? Name of the app again and then how else can people find you?

Dan (57:11)
My website,

yep, ⁓ it is ⁓ Intimately Us is name of the app. But I have a special guest for your listeners. So if they'll go to GetYourMarriageOn.com and this podcast is Dad to Dads. So GetYourMarriageOn.com slash Dad to Dads, all one word, no hyphens or no spaces. It'll take you to the landing page.

Robert Poirier (57:21)
⁓

Dan (57:38)
I will give you, I will email you a few things. First is my, I have this guide, you can buy it on my website for $10 or you can just, you'll get it for free. It's 101 ways to initiate, creative ways to initiate sex. I also have 101 ways to spice up your sex life. That's another guide I have for sale on my site that I'll give you for free. I also have links to my podcast, Get Your Marriage On. I also have the links to the Intimately Us app which we talked about.

And I have a link to another app which we didn't talk about today. It's called Just Between Us and it's a messaging, it's a sexting app for couples and it's absolutely guaranteed that what you send will not, it can only be seen by the person that you're synced with. And then I have a few other guides. You can learn more about my coaching, you can learn more about my podcast and all the other resources that we have.

Robert Poirier (58:15)
Okay.

Okay.

Dan (58:32)
but you'll only get it if you go to getyourmarriageon.com slash dad2dads.

Robert Poirier (58:36)
Okay, great. I'll, ⁓ I'll also put that on there as well and make sure to have a, put a link when this comes out. That's exciting. That's really exciting. I appreciate that. And then are you, are you on Instagram as well or not?

Dan (58:45)
Great. Yeah.

I am. My handle is get your marriage on.

Robert Poirier (58:52)
Okay. Okay. I'll put that link in and, ⁓ tag you and everything as well. Dan, I really appreciate you coming on. really do. And this was interesting. You know, we talked, I'm like, Hmm, this is good. This is going to be interesting. ⁓ you know, but the, the, podcast is about so many things. It's, know, it's dads, it's parenting, it's relationships and you know, sex is a huge component, a very important component to.

relationships, with your partner, with your spouse and, ⁓ know, extremely important component. And, ⁓ so I thought it only made sense for us to have this discussion and I appreciate you. Appreciate you spending time.

Dan (59:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me on. You're a great host. What a great discussion we had.

Robert Poirier (59:39)
Uh, uh,

thank you. I, I, I definitely enjoyed the conversation. I certainly did. And I appreciate you saying that I, when you say a great host, I don't know about that, but, um, you know, I love talking to people, but thank you for your kind words. Definitely. Hey, thank you all again for listening to the dad dad's podcast. You can find us on apple or Spotify as well as most formats. You can also find us on YouTube and Instagram.

Dan (59:51)
Thank you. ⁓

Robert Poirier (1:00:03)
Don't forget to hit the like and subscribe button and feel free to leave a comment. read every single comment. I enjoy most of your comments and I especially enjoy, the, the topic suggestions as well. So thank you all again, and we will talk with you next time.