From Navy Veteran to Single Widowed Father: Stephen Cooper on Resilience & Grief

What happens when the life you planned suddenly vanishes?

In this episode of the Dad to Dads Podcast, Robert sits down with Stephen Cooper - Navy veteran, author of Beneath the Surface, and a father who has walked through the highest stakes imaginable. Stephen shares the raw reality of becoming a single, widowed father to two young children almost overnight.

We dive deep into the "survival circle" of early grief, the internal battle between military pride and the necessity of asking for help, and the unique challenges of being a widowed black father in America today. Stephen also opens up about the intentionality required to blend families, the importance of men’s fellowship, and why "showing up" is the most important job a father has.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How the discipline of the military can (and can’t) prepare you for a life tragedy.
• The danger of the "Lone Wolf" mentality and why men must learn to swallow their pride.
• Strategies for blending families with intentionality and protecting your children’s emotional boundaries.
• How to honor a late spouse’s legacy while moving forward with a new partner.
• The truth about the rising statistics of active Black fathers and dismantling societal stereotypes.

Grab Stephen’s book, Beneath the Surface, on Amazon or Barnes & Noble.

• Instagram: @stephendcooper04

The Dad to Dads Podcast is focused on helping fathers become more present, intentional, and impactful in their children’s lives.

Don’t forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and feel free to leave us a COMMENT

#Fatherhood #DadToDads #GriefJourney #SingleDad #NavyVeteran #BlackFatherhood #MenMentalHealth #BlendedFamily #ParentingAdvice #widow #Resilience #Widower #DadLife #Morehouse

Transcript

Robert Poirier (00:00)
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Dad to Dads podcast. So believe it or not, as fathers, we spend a lot of time planning. We plan for the season, we plan for the next career move, and we definitely plan for the kind of men and women we want our kids to become. But what happens when the life you plan suddenly doesn't resemble the life you're living? We talk a lot on the podcast about showing up for our kids.

But today's has had to do that in the highest stakes imaginable. Stephen Cooper is a Navy veteran, a father of three, and the author of the new book, Beneath the Surface. His journey took him from the structured world of military service to the raw, unfiltered reality of becoming a single widowed father to two young children almost over.

He since navigated the complexities of grief, remarriage, and the unique identity of being a single black father in America today. Stephen, welcome to the podcast.

Stephen Cooper (01:08)
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this. I greatly appreciate it.

Robert Poirier (01:14)
Man, am so happy that we got connected. I appreciate you reaching out. I enjoyed our conversation and you know, I think I even cut you off and said, Hey, let's don't talk anymore. want to hear more on the podcast, but I appreciate you taking time out of your day and you're soon to be Morehouse grad.

Stephen Cooper (01:19)
Mm-hmm.

⁓ Yes, yes. Right.

Absolutely, absolutely. ⁓ Graduated in December. I have commencement coming up in May. I'm looking forward to this because I've been working on this for so long. ⁓ can't wait for it. Can't wait. Thank you. Thank you.

Robert Poirier (01:50)
Well, congrats, congrats. That

is wonderful. Morehouse right here in Atlanta. that is wonderful. Love to hear it. Well, let's dig into the book. ⁓ Tell me about it. I want to hear about your story. Let's just go through it. I mean, it's so unique. mean, it's a lot of emotions that come up when we were talking. And I just thought, you know, people would find that ⁓

Stephen Cooper (01:55)
Absolutely.

Yes, yes.

Robert Poirier (02:20)
there'd be people out there that could resonate with it and it'd be inspirational to a lot of people.

Stephen Cooper (02:25)
Yeah, so basically what happened was is I...

If I would be out and about with my kids, I mean, mind you, this is back after my wife passed away, but I would be out and about with my kids, whether we're at like the grocery store, if we're just transiting, going somewhere and people would see me out and about and they would give me all kinds of, know, props and acknowledgement. Hey, you're doing a good job, dad. You're doing a good job. And it always struck me as kind of weird to receive these type of compliments because, you know,

why are you giving this to me? Like it doesn't really make any sense to me. And for those that actually knew me and they would start inquiring about my life and things like that and they found out that my wife passed away, almost all the reactions were, know, my God, I can't believe this and I don't know how you endure, you know, I'll be praying for you. And after you have these conversations so many times,

Would say to myself you know what I'm gonna write a book one day I'm gonna just write a book that you know talks about all these things that you know Talks about what I went through and all this I'm gonna write that book and I said that for many many years many years I just kept saying I'm gonna write a book. I'm gonna write a book well this past summer I Said to myself I've had this thought of writing this book for so long Let me just start doing it because I'm thinking that there's a right and wrong way to write

write

a book when in all actuality there really isn't. Whatever you want to create, you can create how you want to do it. So I just started writing and I felt like for anyone that was going to read the book, I needed to show how I got to where I am now. And so I had a manuscript already and then I I tossed it because I'm thinking to myself,

Robert Poirier (04:15)
Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (04:21)
I don't want to just start right at the tragedy. need to show I need to build up to it. So I talked about my childhood. I talked about growing up and feeling invisible. I talked about not fitting in. I talked about my religious upbringing. I talked about all of those things that led me to where I am now. And during my last semester at Morehouse, I stayed up until about three o'clock every morning, either doing homework or writing the book, homework, writing the book and

I eventually finished it and here we are now. I've been getting a lot of ⁓ good reviews from people that have read it and I just I want to speak to people that you know feel the same way that I feel. Grew up the same way I grew up. Fathers that feel the same way that I felt. So again I appreciate this opportunity and again this is where I started with the book.

Robert Poirier (05:17)
Man, I appreciate you coming on. Congratulations with the book. Congratulations. Let's, let's, let's dig in. Let's get into your story. It is fascinating. And, ⁓ I would love to get in and the inspiration for the book.

Stephen Cooper (05:20)
Thank you. Thank you.

Okay.

Yeah, so the inspiration was just ⁓ since there's so much to talk about in the book, there's so many inspirations that I have because like I said, I grew up feeling invisible. I was that quiet, nerdy kid that just felt like, I was absolutely. I promise you what I am now is nowhere near what I was.

Robert Poirier (05:45)
You are.

Really?

Yeah, because I was about to say,

I mean, from the first time we talked, it's like, just, I'm shocked to hear you say that.

Stephen Cooper (05:59)
Yeah, yeah, that's how it was. And I am.

Robert Poirier (06:03)
Like how are you nerdy? what, were you into books? Were you quiet? Were you what?

Stephen Cooper (06:05)
So I was very

quiet, but the thing about it is I was very shy.

is what it is. was extremely shy and we know more now about mental health but what it truly was was anxiety. I was very anxious when speaking to people. Yeah and I mean I just at the time I didn't have the vocabulary for it and again we where we are when it comes to mental health now back in the 90s we were not there you know what saying. So ⁓ I grew up very shy I was very quiet.

Robert Poirier (06:14)
Okay.

Okay, I was going to ask you that. Okay.

Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (06:43)
wasn't the popular kid because I didn't have the popular brands of clothing and shoes and things like that. One of the things I said in the book, as I said to little kids in elementary, junior high school, ⁓ clothing, nice clothing is considered currency. And I was often bankrupt. So the clothes that I had, they weren't gonna be talked about anywhere. And so when you add all of that, I was the quiet kid.

Robert Poirier (06:49)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Stephen Cooper (07:12)
So one of my inspirations is for the Quiet Kids, being able to find their voices. ⁓

Robert Poirier (07:19)
And you grew up, you also grew up as Jehovah's Witness.

Stephen Cooper (07:22)
I grew up a Jehovah's Witness, yeah, so I...

Robert Poirier (07:25)
I mean, so that

actually adds another aspect to it as well. mean, imagine when other kids are out playing, and I don't have that much familiarity with Joe as a witness, but I do know that there is a lot of time spent at the church.

Stephen Cooper (07:27)
Yes.

Robert Poirier (07:53)
⁓ also, I guess you would say maybe mission or out and about in the neighborhoods, ministering as well. So you probably missed out a lot of kids stuff.

Stephen Cooper (07:59)
Yes, yes, and it's,

I did, very, it felt very restricting, I would say, because, you know, in school, we don't participate in holidays, don't salute the flag, anything pretty much what a kid would consider to be fun, we did not participate in it. So whenever there would be like a Halloween party, Christmas party, Thanksgiving party,

the all my classmates would be participating in those things and I would go to the library or the computer lab to get away from those things and I said this in a book as well I didn't see any sin.

in participating in those things because it's not as if I'm participating in the actual holiday. We're we're kids. We're creating, you know, jack-o-lanterns on Halloween. We're exchanging candy and it's having fun. I didn't see a problem with that as a kid and as an adult as an adult now. So when you add that, that had a lot to do with how I grew up so shy and quiet and things like that, because I felt like, well, I'm the only Joe was witness around here in my

class amongst my friends. They're all participating doing these things. I'm not able to do that. So that most definitely added to how I grew up, how I felt growing up.

Robert Poirier (09:23)
Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (09:23)
So I know, and after releasing the book, so many people, they would hit me up and say, hey, I was a Jehovah's Witness too. I grew up that way too. And I'm like, get out of here. There's no way, really. And they're like, yeah, my mom, she did this, she did that. And it's shocking. But as far as you mentioned the mission type activities, I...

missed out on like a lot of Saturday morning cartoons growing up because what we would do on Saturdays is go out and what they call field service. That's the knocking on the door. Yeah. And I, I'm a child. What am I doing this for? This makes no sense. So I mean, it's, I could probably write a whole other book about being a Jehovah's witness as a child.

Robert Poirier (10:00)
knocking on the doors. Okay, okay.

Yeah.

You cut, man,

I am sorry. Those Saturday morning cartoons were just the highlights and I'm sorry. I don't want to make you jealous. ⁓

Stephen Cooper (10:21)
Listen, I missed a lot of

them. Now don't get me wrong, I didn't miss the era, because we didn't go like every, but I missed out on so many, so many Saturday cartoons.

Robert Poirier (10:28)
Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I can definitely see how all of that and not even be able to make, I was just thinking when you were talking like you're cutting out hearts for Valentine's day, things like that. And you couldn't participate. I can imagine how that would just add even more to the anxiety and feelings of being a loner. Definitely. Definitely. All right. So go in, let's, let's, let's dig in. Let's, let's go into

Stephen Cooper (10:54)
Yeah, absolutely it did. It did.

Robert Poirier (11:03)
⁓ You served in the military after school, you went into the Navy.

Stephen Cooper (11:07)
Yes.

I went into the Navy. ⁓ So I actually went to college for one year. went to a junior college ⁓ one year after high school and I just, I felt so burnt out from ⁓ school. said to myself, okay, well I'll just go to work and work for a little bit, save up a little money and see what I want to do after that. And I was working a valet parking job. I actually got promoted to the level of manager for a valet parking company. And I was at the hospital that I was

working and I was just standing there and it was very quiet, very slow and I just said to myself this just isn't what I want to do with my life like I want to do something I'm 20 years old.

And I want to do more with my life. And so I started thinking back to the Navy recruiters that would be at my school. They even came to my house and my mom said I wasn't ready so I didn't join. But I thought back to them and I'm thinking to myself, I'm 20 now. I can make my own decisions. I don't have to ask my parents for any of this. Let me go see what they're what they have to say. Went to go talk to them. They sold me on everything, everything that, you know, recruiters sell you on. And I made the decision to join the Navy and ⁓

I always tell people joining the Navy was the best and worst decision that I've ever made in my life. I mean it's given me everything that I have. It's taken me around the world. I've met some wonderful people that I still consider my brothers and sisters to this day. But at the same time I was in situations that I wish I could forget. I wish I could say I never

Robert Poirier (12:43)
Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (12:46)
went through those things. There's even people that I wish that I had never met before, you know? You know, so I always say that the best and worst decision I've ever made. So, yeah, I joined the Navy and I'm still, you know, reaping the benefits of it.

Robert Poirier (12:50)
I'm sure. I'm sure.

So when you got married to your first wife, were you in the Navy then or were you out?

Stephen Cooper (13:10)
So we started dating

when we, cause she was in the Navy as well. We were on the same ship and we started.

Robert Poirier (13:14)
Okay. Uh-oh. Isn't

that, isn't that not supposed to happen? There aren't there rules in place.

Stephen Cooper (13:19)
So it depends

on the command you go to and at the time, so I had three commanding officers on my ship. The first one said no fraternizing. The second one said, ⁓ he said you can but you can't have like a two pay grade difference between you.

Robert Poirier (13:24)
Okay, okay.

Okay.

Right.

Make sense.

Stephen Cooper (13:42)
And then the third one said no. ⁓ However, her and I were operating under the second one's rules and ⁓ we started dating towards the end of our ⁓ enlistments. And so we, so no, I wasn't married at that time. I honestly, my hat goes out to anybody that's serving and married because that's a different type of stress. I cannot imagine. I'll say this. I saw so many men that

Robert Poirier (14:04)
Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (14:13)
would go on the smoke deck and they're just miserable because they miss their families, they're worried about their wives, some of them had children while we were deployed and they can't go home to see them. Listen, I cannot, I couldn't do it, I couldn't do it. So no, we were not married at that time. We didn't get married until after we both were discharged.

Robert Poirier (14:24)
I can't imagine that. I cannot.

Okay, okay. All right, well first, thank you for your service. Definitely appreciate that. let's go into that. So you got married and then let's go from there.

Stephen Cooper (14:40)
Thank you. Thank you.

Mm-hmm

So we we went back so she's originally from Georgia and I'm from Oklahoma and While we're trying to figure out what we want to do with our lives at the time. We're engaged ⁓

It was between Georgia and Oklahoma. And we ultimately decided that at that time, Georgia was a little bit too expensive for what we wanted to do. And so we decided we would go to Oklahoma. Oklahoma has always had a very low cost of living. So we figured we could get jobs. had our GI bill in our back pocket. So we will be able to, you know.

Robert Poirier (15:15)
Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (15:18)
live a comfortable life. And so we relocated to Oklahoma and we both ended up getting accepted to the University of Oklahoma. So we were in school just trying to make our way and ⁓ she gets pregnant.

in 2014 well 2013 you know what mean she gets pregnant and our first daughter is born in 2014 and it's obviously when you have a child it's going to be a change in your life and a change in everything so at the time she's not working I'm working full-time and work going to school full-time and I just I couldn't juggle the two of them I mean I'm a husband father now working full-time school full-time something had to give and so eventually

It was school that had to give that was one thing that I could you know that was the one bit of fat that I could trim Very next year she gets pregnant again and my son comes so now you have two children and I mean one child 29 29 30 somewhere around there um so now things are even more difficult

Robert Poirier (16:07)
Yeah.

How old are you roughly about this time?

Okay, okay.

Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (16:34)
So,

⁓ you know, start having problems in the marriage because our lives are changing very rapidly. ⁓ She had just graduated from OU 2015 and it's we're just not seeing eye to eye. You know, we're not prepared for what's going on because we're still trying to find our way. So, you know, that's

Robert Poirier (16:53)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's so normal

too. I mean, you, if there's any small cracks in a marriage, throw kids in the mix, throw one kid, especially throw two kids in there. They're going to be exposed.

Stephen Cooper (17:05)
Right.

Right.

Right. And so ⁓ the marriage is just falling apart and it ultimately fell apart. You know, we were not living together. ⁓ We were trying to figure out what we were going to do with the kids and everything like that. And I mean, it was a very tough time in my life at that time.

Robert Poirier (17:40)
so you guys were not married when she passed away. You were married. You were still married. Okay. Was her, was her death. If you don't mind me asking, was, was it sudden? Was it an illness? Was it, you don't have to go into it if you don't want to, but

Stephen Cooper (17:45)
No, we were. We were married at that time, but we weren't together. We were separated.

yeah,

I can, because I talk about it in the book, so it's no problem. So basically what happened is we weren't living together. She had went back to her family in Georgia. again, this is not a good divorce that we're going through. ⁓

Robert Poirier (18:15)
Mm-hmm.

Stephen Cooper (18:18)
There's a lot of bitterness there. And so she had called me one day saying that she was asking if she could use the medical insurance card. And I'm not willing to talk to her. I'm just being honest with you, just based off all the stuff. And I tell her, I mean, we're still married. Yes, you can use it. Like, what's going on? And...

Robert Poirier (18:30)
Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (18:38)
She tells me that her chest is hurting. She feels like there's something weighing on her chest. And like all the bitterness and anger in me just goes away because now I'm concerned. And I'm like, okay, well, you need to go to the hospital. You need to go see what's going on. Long story short, she goes to the doctor and she gets admitted into the intensive care. They said she had... ⁓

Robert Poirier (18:48)
Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (19:00)
blood clots in her lungs and then she also had a blood clot in her heart, I believe it was. And they also thought that a virus was attacking her heart. And I'm thinking like, where did this come from? Like what's happening? So we drove all the way from, just overnight drove all the way to Oklahoma, from Oklahoma to Georgia. And I mean, she was in intensive care, know, tubes and everything. And I'm just like, what's going on?

Robert Poirier (19:16)
Yeah, yeah.

Stephen Cooper (19:29)
what's going on. The kids are with me and ⁓ you know we go over there and ⁓ she ends up coming out of the hospital a few days later and she still had some some things that you know she was still trying to recover and ⁓ she was able to go home and maybe like a week later she passed away in her sleep and the the cause was congestive heart failure.

Robert Poirier (19:30)
And the kids are with you? Okay.

Right.

And she

was young.

Stephen Cooper (19:58)
Yeah, she was only 29. And I always say between the two of us, she was always the healthier one. Like I, you know, I drink, I don't always eat healthy.

You know, I used to play basketball all time, but I wasn't exercising the way I should. And she was always the one eating the right foods. Didn't really drink, doesn't smoke, doesn't do any of that stuff. She had a very athletic build. I mean, I said it should have happened to me out of any out of the two of us. It should have happened to me.

Robert Poirier (20:28)
You just ⁓ don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

So all of a sudden you're a dad with two young kids. They're roughly how old?

Stephen Cooper (20:42)
At the time they were three, my daughter was three and my son was one.

Robert Poirier (20:45)
And that's so different than.

I just can't imagine that it's so different than being a divorced parent. When divorced parent, something comes up, you can communicate with your ex, say, I've got this, it just popped up. Do you mind keeping the kids for a couple hours? You're on your own.

Stephen Cooper (21:06)
Yeah, yeah, it's very scary. It's a very scary thought because ⁓ every decision that has to come, every decision I have to make for these children is all on me. Literally everything. Every...

Robert Poirier (21:22)
your mom and your mom

and dad in in in just such vital times in their life too.

Stephen Cooper (21:27)
Mom and dad, yeah.

Right, my son, he was still in diapers. He hadn't been winged off of breast milk. ⁓ Very young, very young. I mean, his birthday was, so she died ⁓ August 13th, 2017, and his birthday is October 2nd. So his second birthday was coming around the corner, but you know, this happened. And... ⁓

Robert Poirier (21:53)
Man.

Stephen Cooper (21:57)
I had to figure it out. I had to figure it out ASAP because again, these are two very reliant children. These aren't like, you know, now they are 12 and 10. And if it had happened at that time, they're more independent right now to be able to do things, you know, on their own. But at that time, there's no way. There's no way at all.

Robert Poirier (22:13)
Yeah.

I just can't imagine the pressure you felt and how overwhelming that is and then having to...

take dual roles at that time. And, you know, I'm even thinking about your daughter, like,

Stephen Cooper (22:31)
Yeah.

Robert Poirier (22:36)
you know, if I had daughters and thinking about that age, I wouldn't know how to do their hair. like, I mean, you know, I think about like braiding and everything else, like all of a sudden you're having to take a crash course or, you know, in that.

Stephen Cooper (22:42)
Yeah, that's so that's Yes, yes

Right.

That's one of the and that's one of the biggest regrets I have. I know it's you know, we laugh about it as men, but

I wish I had watched or tried to figure it out, but I'm thinking to myself where her mom's here so she can do her hair. And you're not thinking that her mom may not be here one day. So that and my daughter, she has a full crown of hair. I mean, just a lot of hair. And I had to figure out how to do certain things in order to get her to school every morning, because I mean, she can't go looking crazy. Then there's

Robert Poirier (23:11)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (23:28)
lot of questions that'll be asked by this school and you know so yeah.

Robert Poirier (23:30)
Of of course.

Gosh, I can't imagine. Can you think back? there... So let me put it this way. When I have gone through challenges in my life and I've always... There's different things I lean into, my faith, during these dark times, hard times.

these struggles, it's my faith. And then there's always something I keep telling myself. What about you? How do you get through where it's all of a sudden your wife, the mother of your children, she's gone? It's you two kids in the world. Was there something you kept telling yourself? Or how did you get through it?

Stephen Cooper (24:21)
So there were so many thoughts going through my head and a lot of them were just trying to make sure my kids had some type of normalcy in their life and what I did at that time was I I focused everything on them every bit of energy every ounce that I had I focused on them trying to make sure that they're okay because

At the time, a 3 and a 1 year old can't really understand what death really is. And so I always wondered what are they thinking? What's going on in their mind right now? And I would try to keep them occupied. Whether it's toys, whether it's going out somewhere, whether it's watching YouTube videos, little fun videos for them, stuff like that. I tried to focus on that.

Don't I never really said anything to myself. I mean I do believe in God. I do you know pray I You know one of the things I always ask God is why you know why? Why take a and I struggled with it for a very long time why take a mother away from a three and a one-year-old? It's one of the main things. I just always ask why why why I don't understand this and I'm not

Robert Poirier (25:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (25:44)
I just can't see myself ever understanding this. But trying to get myself through it, just, I would get lost in thoughts. Just trying to get through the next day. I would just keep myself busy with them. And that's ultimately how I got through. And because of that, I was neglecting myself because I was hurting. I was mourning. I was having, you know, times of just breaking down, crying, but...

I said to myself, I don't have time to worry about myself. I have a three and one year old that I have to worry about first. whatever I'm going through, it can wait. I can deal with this later.

Robert Poirier (26:24)
Wow, I can't imagine. mean, you were just on survival mode.

Stephen Cooper (26:29)
was that's a perfect way to describe it I mean and it's not just survival survival mode for me it was for them too because they're looking at me I'm everything to them and I have to I have to provide for them I have to keep the lights on in the house I have to I still have to work too you know so

Robert Poirier (26:49)
I don't know if this, you know, I wonder.

with your service and in the Navy, I think is very regimented, right? Like everything is, excuse me, everything is very regimented with the Navy, what I think of the Navy, processes, right? I wonder how beneficial that was to you with this and this has to be done. There's one, then there's two, then there's three, then there's four. ⁓ You know, if that was helpful at all or not.

Stephen Cooper (27:07)
Yes.

The...

Robert Poirier (27:23)
Did you?

Stephen Cooper (27:24)
I can honestly say without the Navy, I would not have been able to get through it because the Navy taught me a lot about resilience, toughness, discipline.

You know, maintaining a schedule and things like that. And those are skills that translate everywhere. So therefore I was I mean, I still I'm still that way now. I hate being late for anything. You know, I I look at my time like even getting on here. ⁓ We're starting at 1030. I was ready at 1015. Just, you know.

Robert Poirier (27:41)
Sure.

Yeah, and I was a little bit late. Sorry. Usually, usually I'm early. You can ask most guys. Usually I'm like five, 10 minutes early. I'm waiting on them,

but sorry.

Stephen Cooper (28:03)
Yeah, no,

you're good. ⁓ I went without the Navy and it gave me the mental strength. Now granted, ⁓ something like this, nobody's ever gonna be prepared for, I don't believe.

Robert Poirier (28:15)
No.

Stephen Cooper (28:17)
Without that mental strength, without everything that the Navy gave me, I wouldn't have been able to get through. I don't know where I'd be right now without it because I look at myself prior to the Navy and how I thought. mean, granted, I was younger, but how I thought, my thought processes and how I would get emotional about certain things, there's no way I would have gotten through here. There's no way.

Robert Poirier (28:40)
Yeah. So I want to jump into a question. You, you talk about the emotional side of B or the side of being a black single father in America. And I mean, I obviously, I can't speak about being a black male or black and a black father in America, but I think about kind of the stereotypes.

kind of rigid and the expectations for a black father and ⁓ strong, don't need help, they can handle it, that type. And at the same time, ⁓ proud, I don't need help. I can...

I don't want to, you know, I don't need help. I'm not going to pursue help. I could be way off base. ⁓ and I apologize if I am, but will you kind of go into that for me and let me know about that? Let us know about that experience.

Stephen Cooper (29:50)
So as far as me, you're not off base at all. And the reason I say that is because ⁓ when she passed away, everybody that I know is offering all kinds of help. They realize I'm by myself now. Hey, if you need anything, let me know. Hey, if you need anything, let me know.

Robert Poirier (30:11)
Man, it's that first month

where you have like tons of casseroles and everything else and then it drops off.

Stephen Cooper (30:15)
Yeah,

yeah and a lot of times and I'll be honest a lot of times when people say that it's an empty, know, it's empty hill, you know, they're just they're just trying to show support but as a single parent

Robert Poirier (30:23)
It is. Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (30:30)
I'll just put single parent out there not even you black father you're gonna need help at some time because the way the way our society is built it's built on a two-parent household if you have kids is built on a two-parent household and Anything that deviates deviates from that it you're gonna struggle And so I found myself in that position to where I actually needed help I'm thinking I Need to ask somebody but my pride my ego

even while I'm warning, when I'm realizing I do need help, it wouldn't allow me to do so.

All these people that that offered help I could not bring myself to call anybody. I got this I'm supposed I'm supposed to get through this I'm supposed to be able to handle this but you end up in that which are back against the wall and realize I have to so as big as this pride is I need to swallow it and call somebody I'm blessed to have a brother and sister that

you know, they got me through a lot of times. And mainly it was whether it's just emotional support, but it was watching my kids for me because I still had to provide for them. I still had a job that I had to go to and daycare, childcare is expensive, especially for the younger they are. ⁓

Robert Poirier (31:51)
There it is.

Stephen Cooper (31:56)
The more you have, it's expensive. Most people can't afford it. And so at that time, you know, well, I'll say this, most people can't afford it and there's not space available. So everywhere I was calling that was, you know, within my radius or whatever, I, they didn't have any space or it was too expensive. So my brother stepped in, my sister stepped in and they allowed me to bring my kids to them while I was working and working on getting other childcare.

But you're you're absolutely right as far as I'm concerned my pride and my ego Would not allow me to ask anybody else for help and people asked all the time Hey, do you need anything and I would think to myself this is the opportunity I can tell them yes, but I just I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it

Robert Poirier (32:44)
Yeah, I wonder about that because you think strong, proud, black man and. ⁓

It would be tough. It would be very tough to do that. I mean, I know for myself, it would be extremely challenging, but then with society, for you, I imagine that it was extremely tough. When this happened, I just think about with your kids, we talked about survival. Was there something?

Stephen Cooper (33:07)
Yeah.

Robert Poirier (33:16)
When your wife passed away, was there something in your mind of...

Hey, this is, you know, these are the cards I'm dealt, but I'm going to be bound and determine my kids are raised this way, or I'm going, I'm not going to let them be a victim of ⁓ their mother's passing. Was there any of that? do you, and if so, do you mind going into it?

Stephen Cooper (33:43)
Yeah, I, you know, like I said, I tried to, and I still do, I try to give them as normal of a life as possible. I don't want them to feel that they're handicapped in any way, even though they are. I want them to be successful. I want them to feel confident in themselves. And like I said, I try my best to provide that for them, you know.

I let them know often that their mom will be proud of them for all that they do. ⁓ We have pictures of her around. We'll probably get into that later, at the house now we have pictures of her. ⁓

Robert Poirier (34:15)
That's great.

Stephen Cooper (34:25)
tell them stories, things like that. Kids have cell phones nowadays, so I'm able to send them pictures and little things like that. ⁓ yeah, I try my best to keep them from feeling like they're handicapped in a way whenever it comes to their mother not being here.

Robert Poirier (34:44)
That's wonderful. I lost my dad when I was 10 and ⁓

You do miss out on a lot. mean, look, I had a great, if you want to call it support group, ⁓ friends, adults, fantastic mom, but there are times when you miss your father and you miss those things and you do feel alone. Them talking, you you come to school and the kids are talking about what they did with their dad or it's...

Stephen Cooper (35:07)
Absolutely.

Robert Poirier (35:16)
I don't know some event, a sporting event and everybody's walking out on the field with their father or, ⁓ you know, different things like that. And you're not, ⁓ you know, or I fishing with my dad or my dad taught me how to hunt and, know, what did you do? ⁓ you know, so you miss out on those things, but you ended up, and I'm so happy to hear that. And I do want to go into, you know, how you continue to honor her and her legacy, but.

Stephen Cooper (35:35)
Yeah.

Robert Poirier (35:46)
you ended up getting remarried.

Stephen Cooper (35:49)
I did, yes, yes. ⁓ At the time, I wasn't ⁓ looking for another wife or anything like that. And my wife now, we had met on social media. And we were just in a group, just a group that just has fun, doesn't do anything. We just.

share memes, share little stories, may share pics of our kids or things like that. her and I actually didn't get along for like one year because we argued about something. It was something stupid. And I told her, don't comment on any of my posts. She goes, OK, I won't. And for a whole year, we didn't talk. And yeah.

Robert Poirier (36:35)
And you're in your thirties, right? You're not like teenage.

⁓

Stephen Cooper (36:39)
Right,

exactly. was so stupid. It was dumb. ⁓ we ended up, I forgot, like we started talking just as friends. And one thing led to another. We started dating. She lived in Florida. I was living in Oklahoma. ⁓ Started dating and... ⁓

Robert Poirier (36:41)
Ha ha ha.

Stephen Cooper (37:05)
make back and forth trips to see each other. Whenever things got serious, we were very, we had very intentional conversations about.

because she has a daughter, my stepdaughter, and we were very intentional about our conversations as far as bringing the kids together or us meeting each other's children. And it took a lot of time because we had a lot of conversations. I told her, I don't want to bring you around them unless you're going to be a permanent fixture in their life. And she agreed. She was like, I totally understand that. And so for me,

just it took a lot of long time just because of how sensitive the situation is you know they're probably like you just said just a minute ago they're going to school and they're hearing these stories from their friends I did this with my mom I did this with my mom they're probably looking for something like that to have so any like if I brought a woman around they may want to latch on to this person so therefore that person needs to be a permanent fixture and whenever we figured that

out we finally brought our kids together and you know everything worked out we decided we were

Robert Poirier (38:24)
You know, you're so, you're

so, Stephen, you're so mindful. Uh, a lot, and a lot of people aren't that way with their kids. They're thinking more me, me, me, and they'll be bringing different ones into their kids' lives. And so now I'm just right after either death or right after divorce. And there's, you know, they're seeing the

parent their parents partner in their life automatically and then hey two weeks later there might be somebody else and you're so intentional with that. I have a question though you know you guys had the three of you had been through so much I think of it kind of as

a lack of a better term kind of like a little survival circle, the three of you.

Stephen Cooper (39:07)
Well.

Robert Poirier (39:09)
And then to let somebody into that circle, even though you really liked her, I imagine that was super hard. You know, how do you mind kind of telling me about that? how you, ⁓ that had to present challenges and how you went about that and what that was like.

Stephen Cooper (39:28)
Right,

it was very challenging because, you know, again, I have this boundary up around my kids. You know, if there's any boundary anywhere, it's the strongest one is around them. And both, both with the viciousness of both of them. And I did a lot of thinking and praying on it, wondering, do I bring this person around them? You know?

Robert Poirier (39:36)
Sure.

Your mama bear and daddy bear, you know, protecting them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (39:57)
Is this the right thing to do? Like I said, this didn't happen over a month, two months, three months. It was a very long time, very long time. whenever I finally did it, it felt right.

Robert Poirier (40:06)
Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (40:13)
It felt like the right thing to do. But I went back and forth, whether, okay, we're gonna do it this time, we're gonna do it this time. Back and forth, I took so much time with it. And like I said, whenever it finally happened, it felt like the right thing to do. It felt like I wasn't making a mistake. That this is the person that I need to, that I should have around my children.

Robert Poirier (40:37)
Yeah, that's wonderful. As you were talking, I was wondering about that because you're very intentional. From our conversations, I can tell you're very protective of your kids and through social media and the post, very proud of your children. You're picture perfect dad, it looks like.

Stephen Cooper (40:52)
guess.

Absolutely, man.

Try to be.

Robert Poirier (41:06)
what every kid would hope their dad's like and, you know, and then having to let somebody else in, I can't imagine the challenges with that.

Stephen Cooper (41:16)
Yeah.

Robert Poirier (41:17)
You, and I don't want to, I don't mean to jump ahead. I just, after our conversation, I just had so many thoughts when you blended. When you, so she had a daughter as well. Okay. So when, when you blended as you know, a single widower who's gone through their survival mode, now you're remarried, you're in somewhat more of a stable environment.

Stephen Cooper (41:27)
Yes.

Robert Poirier (41:43)
Was it challenging or?

how do you show up for that third child? I would imagine there would be some challenges there just to make sure everybody blends. Do you mind kind of going into that?

Stephen Cooper (41:58)
Yeah, so there's definitely challenges when you're blending a family. And one of the main ones is different ideologies whenever it comes to parenting. Because I met my daughter when she was seven, I believe. And by the time her...

By the time her mother and I got married, she was nine. And so she's established with her mother as far, and you know, doing things a certain way. Her mother has certain views whenever it comes to parenting. have mine. And so somehow we have to make this puzzle of ideologies fit together. And in some cases it does not fit. It doesn't fit at all. And instead of breaking the whole puzzle apart, you have to find a way to compromise and

make things work out the way ⁓ it'll be beneficial to everybody. ⁓ So my daughter's father is still around. ⁓ He comes and goes, they have their own relationship. And ⁓ I'm the father that's in the house though.

And what I have to do is I have to be fair. I can't show favoritism to my children. I can't, you know, show too much to her because then my children may feel some type of way. So it's a balancing act. You know, you have to, you know, show love and support for both, for all three of them. ⁓

Robert Poirier (43:22)
Yeah

Stephen Cooper (43:32)
It's tough at times because also they're different personalities and these personalities are starting to develop and you know, they're changing every day. So my daughters are now 14 and 12. So one of them is already a teenager and another one's entering that teenage phase.

Robert Poirier (43:37)
Yeah.

lord.

Stephen Cooper (43:53)
Yeah, so you know where I'm going. You know where I'm going. They were just little girls, just ⁓ feels like a few days ago, and we're watching, you know, ⁓ the, what's that show called, Gumball? ⁓ What's that? I forgot the other one with the Eiffel Tower. I forgot.

Robert Poirier (43:55)
Hahaha

Yeah, yeah

Yeah, I

know what you're talking about.

Stephen Cooper (44:14)
Yeah,

so we were just watching those, it feels like a few days ago, and now they don't want to do anything like that. Now they want to talk to their friends. They're into fashion. They want to wear makeup. It's totally changed. what's also happening is their vocabulary is changing. The way they react to certain things are changing. And so...

⁓ It's a challenge. It's a definite challenge.

Robert Poirier (44:44)
It's so funny. You talk about vocabulary and I know when, you know, when I was young and the word bad came out, that's bad. And parents were like,

Stephen Cooper (44:53)
Yeah.

Robert Poirier (44:57)
Good or bad? No, no, that's like bad. You know, no, that means good. you know, teaching them that. And now it's like, there was something the other day I was listening and they said something about the person being cooked. And then it was they're cooking, but those have two totally different, you know, and they're so.

Stephen Cooper (45:10)
Hahaha

Yeah, two totally different meanings.

Another one is ⁓ skibbity. I still don't know what that means. I have no idea. I'll ask them and they won't tell me. I don't trust looking it up on Google because there's gonna be like a thousand different users, but they...

Robert Poirier (45:22)
Yes!

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's

so many like us. feel like there was only just a few, like just a couple of them and they have their own language. I feel like they literally communicate with stuff that is, you know, you would have to Google everything. They could have a whole sentence with it. And it's like, what? You know,

Stephen Cooper (45:37)
Yes, yes.

Yes.

Right, right, right.

But yeah, that's one of the challenges, well a few of challenges of blending the life together.

Robert Poirier (45:57)
Yeah. But you know what you think about? I think about the challenges, but also for your daughter, your son's the youngest, correct? Okay. I think about for your daughters, it's also good. How close in age your daughter and your stepdaughter, how close in age are they?

Stephen Cooper (46:05)
Yes, he's 10, yes.

So my stepdaughter is 12 and my dog, I'm sorry my stepdaughter is 14 and my daughter is 12

Robert Poirier (46:20)
Okay. So they're close enough to where they can kind of help each other out. Plus they have now you have a wife in the picture. Thank goodness that can help with things. ⁓ so that's, that's good.

Stephen Cooper (46:25)
Yes.

the years.

Robert Poirier (46:36)
Keeping your first wife's memory still alive, how do you go about that? mean, is your current wife, is she cool with that and everything else? Just so your kids.

Stephen Cooper (46:48)
So

if there's ever anything that I can brag about my wife, give her all the props in the world for is how secure she is with...

knowing where my late wife is in my heart and in my life. She has never felt any, you know, jealousy. She's never felt insecure. She's always been supportive. She was the one that actually came up with the idea of putting pictures up in our house of her for my children. She's, she's all, she's never gotten in the way of anything. She's.

Robert Poirier (47:12)
Yeah.

Bye.

That speaks highly

of her.

Stephen Cooper (47:28)
I mean it and I mean when I think about it there's so many people that won't do that they won't feel comfortable about it and they feel threatened and everything she knows

Robert Poirier (47:34)
Yeah. Feel threatened.

Stephen Cooper (47:41)
She knows that I will always love her, always. And she doesn't feel any way about that. She doesn't, like you said, she doesn't feel threatened by me saying I will always love my late wife. Like on her birthday or anything, any special day. If I say something on social media that I will always love you, she does not.

feel any way about that, any negative way about that. And that was just everything for me. It really was.

Robert Poirier (48:12)
that speaks highly of her. Is there anything looking back in this journey you've had, which hasn't been easy? is there anything you would change in how you approach something, how you did something?

or not.

Stephen Cooper (48:27)
⁓ I would have asked for help whenever I needed help because I feel like there were times where I could have reduced a lot of stress on my life if I just asked for help. ⁓ As an older man now I realized there's not a problem with reaching out and asking for help. We all are gonna need help at some point. We can't do this life by ourself.

I would have asked for help. If somebody offered it, I would have slowly said yes, could use some help right now. The other thing would be ⁓ to find time for my mental health because that was neglected for so long. Now granted I have been through grief therapy, I'm still a work in progress. I'm not where I want to be. ⁓

I would have done that sooner. I would have gone to grief therapy to help me because that could have helped me during my day to day ⁓ in those times. And ⁓ those are the two main things that I would have done is just reached out for help and gotten myself into therapy a lot sooner.

Robert Poirier (49:30)
Yeah.

It's that pride and ego that us men struggle with so much. And it is bad. It is bad. And you know, the interesting thing, when you're in that, you don't want to, you don't want to ask. But it's amazing when you do, when you just get to that breaking point and you do, or somebody pulls it out of you, the people that show up.

Stephen Cooper (49:44)
Yeah.

I mean, it's bad. It is really bad.

Robert Poirier (50:08)
and they want to help you. know, they want to, has that made you more, it has me and I'm curious, has that made you more aware when somebody is going through something and, you know, especially other men, like when you see them going through it or you might, ⁓ you know, maybe you think that, hey, they're probably having a challenging time where you're more aware and you go and like, Hey, you good?

Stephen Cooper (50:10)
Right.

Robert Poirier (50:38)
And they're like, yeah, I'm good. No, seriously. Are you good? Like, yeah.

Stephen Cooper (50:41)
⁓ absolutely, absolutely.

It gives me ⁓ empathy. I'll see somebody going through something and I'll just put myself in their shoes and think, they're probably thinking this way. They might be thinking this way. So therefore, if it's somebody I'm talking to, can put some distance between us just a little bit. Let me give this person a little bit of space. I know this person may be needing this right now.

Robert Poirier (50:47)
Yeah.

Stephen Cooper (51:11)
kind of soft offer, you know, a little bit of help to them. Let me do that. So absolutely, absolutely it has.

Robert Poirier (51:18)
Yeah. And I think, I think us men, need to push a little bit more at times. We need to be more aware and look at ourselves. Uh, you know, I've got a friend of mine, a good friend of mine who's going through some stuff and has been for a while and, know, reach out, Hey, how's everything going? You good? You know, texts, phone calls, everything's very surface. And then, um, it was about a week ago. know, it's time to dig in. so how are you doing? Uh, I'm good. I'm good. All right, let's go get a beer.

Stephen Cooper (51:44)
Right.

Yeah.

Robert Poirier (51:47)
So

went and had a beer and three and a half hours And he needed somebody just to spill it to. And it was, that's what I think about my struggles I've had, the challenges, the hurdles, whatever you want to call them in life. It has made me more aware. And I try to acknowledge that. And as you say, have empathy. And I think that's.

Stephen Cooper (51:55)
Yeah, yeah.

Robert Poirier (52:11)
You know, I want to encourage other men to, do that and, and realize yourself, Hey, it's tough. Everybody's going through something. Look, women, we, I have said this time and time again, I've had so many people on here. I've said this.

Stephen Cooper (52:18)
Yeah.

Robert Poirier (52:27)
You know, kudos to women, man. They are great about talking about the shit they go through in life.

Stephen Cooper (52:34)
absolutely,

absolutely. Man.

Robert Poirier (52:36)
They

are great about it. And I wish we were more like that. ⁓ But we don't. And I think we need to, and we need, men need to lean on other men a lot more. And you know, these stigma, the stereotypes, the, don't care what color you are, what religion you are, we all do it. ⁓

Stephen Cooper (52:52)
Yes.

Robert Poirier (53:03)
We need to open up and be more vulnerable with each other because it's helpful. It's helpful to both the, the one hearing it, the one speaking, ⁓ we're all going through something and we knew, and you know, we've, I've talked about this at nausea. mean, we used to do pre COVID. used to do. Poker nights men's night get together for watching Monday night football for Thursday night football for.

You know, all getting together, watch these games and we still do, but not to the level that we used to, you know, and men need, I know it's, this is such a old phrase and, and use so often, but men do need other men.

Stephen Cooper (53:41)
I hear you, I hear you.

Yeah, we definitely do. We definitely do. I wish that, I mean, I have friends, I have close friends that I consider brothers. even with them, I felt like I can't open up to you about this because for one, you've never been through this. And two, I don't want you to see this weak side of me. You know what I'm saying? And.

Robert Poirier (54:12)
That's it. That's it.

Stephen Cooper (54:15)
I, I, I, now I don't have that. Like if you're my brother, if I consider you my brother and you judge me based on something I'm going through, you make fun of something that I'm going through, you're no longer a brother of mine because, you know, I should be able to come to you and tell you this, you know?

Robert Poirier (54:28)
Right, right.

Stephen Cooper (54:34)
We definitely need that fellowship men need to fellowship more and we have to be able to be receptive to hearing somebody else telling telling you what they're going through and not you judge them and say man You being weak as hell, know, you need to just man up now. Let let your brother talk to you Let him speak to you

Help him get through this but you know we have a lot we have a long way to go as men because we we shouldn't be This prideful we shouldn't be this egotistical whenever it comes to things we just We got to do better

Robert Poirier (55:09)
Steve, I think it goes back. I agree with you. think it goes back to survival, right? I think it does, but I think at the same time we need to look at it. If very simplistic, if I put you in the woods alone or me in the woods alone, how long are we, are you going to survive or am I going to survive? But however, if I put the two of us,

it's going to be a little bit easier and we'll probably survive longer. Right? I mean, you can be going out hunting or I can be going out hunting while the other person's, you know, collecting wood to build a fire and to build shelter. And, you know, you go scout that way for water. I'll go this way. And, you know, we're covering more. We're fine. You know, and I think we need to look at that. That's easier to survive with two, with three, with four.

to face these challenges we face today than it is this lone wolf out on their own fighting off everything.

Stephen Cooper (56:07)
That is the perfect analogy. The way you just put that, that is perfect. Because I mean, you you're by yourself in the woods, you're gonna probably, I mean, you might get far, you might, but you're gonna get way further if you have other men with you. Way further.

Robert Poirier (56:24)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So years from now, your children live back on your life, on your life, your life, ⁓ in service, you know, military, well as your life as a father, what is the thing that you hope they realize about you?

⁓ You know, if you want to say working beneath the surface all these years, ⁓ what is the thing you hope they realize about you?

Stephen Cooper (56:59)
want them to realize that I never gave up and that I gave everything I had to them.

Robert Poirier (57:09)
Brother, that's going to be

so obvious if they don't see that. They're so blind.

Stephen Cooper (57:12)
Listen, I

tell them all the time. I jokingly tell them this. ⁓ My daughter plays both basketball and soccer and my son plays soccer. I say this all the time. My son's gonna be the next Ronaldo. I'm calling it now. But I tell them, he's really good. I tell them all the time.

Robert Poirier (57:30)
Hahaha

Stephen Cooper (57:35)
After all these trainings I take you to all the games I go to I try my best not to miss anything but one of y'all better go pro. That's all that one of y'all better go pro and stuff. After all of this somebody needs to go pro. I'm not gonna ask for any money just I want tickets to a few of your games. That's all I ask for. I'm gonna just

Robert Poirier (57:45)
Hahaha

Stephen Cooper (57:57)
Me and my wife are gonna be in the house just relaxing send us tickets to a couple games and that's it but now I ⁓ I just want them to know that I gave it my all every single day. ⁓ I showed up and I tried my best. I truly truly did. ⁓

There are days I don't feel like it. There are days I don't feel like taking them to training. There are days I don't feel like, you know, taking them to school, but I get up, I show up, and I give them my best. So I hope they see that whenever they're older. I truly do.

Robert Poirier (58:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

They will. And what a great model you are for them.

Stephen Cooper (58:42)
appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.

Robert Poirier (58:44)
I mean, seriously,

what a great model you are for them and,

so many times you could have thrown in the towel, turned up the bottle, whatever it is, you know, just giving up and you didn't. what a blessing you are to them.

Stephen Cooper (58:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Robert Poirier (59:07)
Seriously,

there's so much in your book and I look forward to reading it. ⁓ usually I try to read when I have somebody on that has a book come out, ⁓ I try to read it before, or at least if I don't read it completely do some very heavy skimming of it. any other highlights that we maybe have missed that you wanna cover before we wrap up.

Stephen Cooper (59:31)
⁓ so I mean, there's, there's so much in it. talk about going to Morehouse. talk about what Morehouse meant to me and how it changed the trajectory of my life as well. I actually ran for city council in my hometown while I was a single father. ⁓ I remember taking my kids to go vote with me. They were so young and they saw my name on the ballot and it just, you know, my, daughter was like, is that you or is that somebody else? I'm like, no, that's me. So that.

Robert Poirier (59:59)
Hahaha

Stephen Cooper (1:00:01)
That moment meant it was so much for me. I also got accepted to Cornell University. ⁓ I will be going, well, hopefully, God willing, I should be starting ⁓ in May over at Cornell. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you. So ⁓ there's a lot in the book. Like I said, there should be something for everybody there. ⁓

Robert Poirier (1:00:15)
Wow, congratulations.

What advice would you give for fathers out there and parents in general even?

Stephen Cooper (1:00:26)
it's

⁓ I would I would give just father's parents in general Show up for your kids show up be there. You're not gonna get it You're not gonna be perfect at it. You're gonna make mistakes and that's fine You know, no, but there's no such thing as a perfect parent. Your kids are gonna get mad at you Your kids are gonna be disappointed in you Mistakes happen, but keep showing up for them. Keep showing up for them ⁓

Just give it your all, you know, and I mean, I know we're not gonna be able to talk about it right now, but especially for black fathers, show up for your kids, man. Just be there as best as you can. Well, I'll just say, cause I mean, like we had talked about it, we even talked about this on the phone prior to this, there's that stigma that's on black fathers. And I feel like that's why I was getting a lot of the compliments that I was getting after my wife died because

Robert Poirier (1:01:14)
Go into that, go into it further if you want to. I'm fine with Tom.

Stephen Cooper (1:01:32)
People aren't used to seeing black fathers with their kids as often as they see anybody else. It's usually the mother with the kids. It's usually some other ethnicity. seeing a black father with a three and a one year old in the book, said people thought I was like Bigfoot or something like that because they just, they're not used to seeing that. So, you know, show up for your kids as best as you can show.

Robert Poirier (1:02:00)
I'm a step

out on a limb here and I'm not big enough to get canceled. ⁓

Stephen Cooper (1:02:06)
You

Robert Poirier (1:02:07)
Do you, I have my own thoughts, but do you think that is on the dads? If we're talking about just the black fathers, when they're not seen, or do you think that is on society?

Stephen Cooper (1:02:21)
Ooh, that's a great question. ⁓

Robert Poirier (1:02:24)
Because

and I'm going to say this again, obviously I'm not a black father. And, um, while, you know, I, I do have a very large and diverse circle of friends. And still it's not a national sample, but it seems like there are a tremendous amount of black fathers that want to be involved.

Stephen Cooper (1:02:51)
Yes, that is absolutely true.

Robert Poirier (1:02:53)
that want to

be involved in a lot of times I feel.

that they're getting, they're not getting a fair shake, if that makes sense. Are there some black fathers that don't want to be involved? Yeah, there's white fathers, there's Asian fathers, there's Hispanic fathers, there's whatever race fathers that are like that. But I feel, and I could be totally wrong, but I feel that there are a tremendous amount of

Stephen Cooper (1:03:01)
Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Robert Poirier (1:03:24)
Again, if we want to go to race black fathers that want to be involved and that are trying to be involved and wish they were more involved, but for some reason they're not, or they're not allowed to thoughts. And please tell me if I'm, if you feel I'm wrong, please.

Stephen Cooper (1:03:29)
Yes.

Yeah, there are...

You're not wrong at all. I mean, are... ⁓ You're right, there are a host of black fathers that want to be in their children's lives. However, ⁓ whether it's their criminal record, whether it's the mother of their children being vindictive,

whether it's unfair court systems, there are a host of reasons that a lot of black fathers aren't able to be in their children's lives, contrary to what they want to actually do. Is it some of their own faults? Absolutely, it most definitely is. But what I am proud of is that,

there are more black fathers that are actually stepping up and actually being there because I can't quote the study. I wish I could but at one point the percentages were very low but the percentages are rising as far as active black fathers. But yeah you're right there are I mean

Robert Poirier (1:04:36)
a lot.

Stephen Cooper (1:04:55)
There's so many reasons, so many reasons as to why some may not be involved, but.

Robert Poirier (1:04:59)
A couple of

things come to mind. ⁓ One, there's a group here. I think it's called fathers incorporated. ⁓ And I had them on and I've had Javin Foreman who works for them. I've had him on. He's a Morehouse man. You need to meet him. Fantastic guy. ⁓ They help ⁓ fathers, black fathers, legitimize themselves and really help them with

Stephen Cooper (1:05:12)
Okay.

Robert Poirier (1:05:28)
becoming more active in the lives of their children. All right, I'm probably gonna get hate mail for this and I might edit this out, but I'm gonna say it.

I at times wonder if the, and I am not knocking the black single mom, but the strong black single mom at times, I wonder if that is over celebrated and pushes the dad further out in the mom's mind. And maybe I should edit that out, but

I just, I'm too.

Stephen Cooper (1:06:04)
I

understand why you'd want to edit that out. I totally get it because some people may not understand what you're actually saying. I get exactly what you're saying because...

Robert Poirier (1:06:16)
Tell me what I'm saying to tell me, help me.

Stephen Cooper (1:06:20)
Okay, so what

you're saying is that the narrative of a strong black woman is pushed so hard on society that a lot of black women may feel that they don't need a man for this. They don't need a man for that. I have to be this strong black woman based on what I'm being, what I'm being.

fed. You know what saying? However, just like the analogy you use whenever you were talking about ⁓ two men in the woods, when it comes to parenting, it is much easier with two parents there versus the one parent doing this. You know, does that make sense?

Robert Poirier (1:07:01)
It does make sense. It does make sense.

Stephen Cooper (1:07:03)
So therefore, when I hear whether it's a black woman, whether it's a white woman or whatever, when they say, I can raise this child by myself, yes, you may be able to do it. Absolutely, there have been plenty of people that have been raised by single.

women that that is a true thing but it would be much easier on on the woman it would be much better for the child if they had both parents there to raise them.

Robert Poirier (1:07:33)
So I feel like that phrase was born out of necessity.

And now it's used a lot by choice.

Stephen Cooper (1:07:42)
I can see that. I can see that.

Robert Poirier (1:07:44)
I think we need to realize that it's so much better for the kids. If there, if there is an opportunity for there to be both parents involved.

Stephen Cooper (1:07:53)
Absolutely.

I 100 % believe that. 100%. And I mean, I understand that there's different situations and scenarios. The man had an affair and left. Yes, this woman has to be strong now because she has children.

You know what mean? She's forced to be strong. But in a lot of situations, that's not always the case. You know, we could even point the finger saying, well, the woman broke this relationship up. You know, not just the man. The man didn't do it this time, the woman did it. And now she has this child and she has to be strong. She's now a strong mother. I mean, she broke up. She had an affair. So...

I totally understand. I understand where you're coming from.

Robert Poirier (1:08:46)
Okay, all right, feel free to push back. just, um, and I don't know how that was not coming up in our conversation.

Stephen Cooper (1:08:54)
No, I mean see this is what happens when you have like a free-flowing conversation because you know you'll be like well wait a minute hold on what about this what about this I mean that's what happens you know

Robert Poirier (1:08:59)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I just, ⁓ you know, but going back to it, I do think there's, there's a ton of dads. And if you want to boil it down to my small sample size and, or what I hear and see, there's a lot of black fathers that want to be involved. And that would do anything to be involved. And I think they are seeing the importance. And again, I've said it a million times on the podcast. I think.

Stephen Cooper (1:09:23)
Yeah, yeah.

Robert Poirier (1:09:34)
I don't care, black, white, whatever. A lot of the issues that we see in society today are the result of fathers not being involved. And I think dads are seeing that and waking up to that too, and they don't want their kids going down certain roads.

Stephen Cooper (1:09:54)
Yeah,

Robert Poirier (1:09:55)
So how can people find you? And how can they find your book?

Stephen Cooper (1:09:59)
So,

okay, so my book is ⁓ everywhere Barnes and Noble Amazon If you just Google beneath surface by Stephen Cooper, it'll bring up all the listings I tried to make sure that it's available everywhere because I know I've heard so many people say they don't buy on Amazon They don't buy here. So I made sure my distribution is everywhere ⁓

I'm on Instagram, Stephen D Cooper 04. ⁓ I'm also on TikTok and threads, same name. ⁓

I tell people all the time if you want to reach out, reach out to me. Any father that needs advice, I'm not an expert, but I do have experience. So reach out if you just want to talk. If you're not in my city and you want to have a virtual beer with me, we can do that. You know what mean? Just reach out. Don't feel like you're doing things alone. You have to do things alone. Reach out. I'll do my best to try to help you out. But yeah, definitely buy the book. Buy the book.

Robert Poirier (1:11:00)
Yeah,

yeah, definitely. And I will put links. ⁓ I'll put links to the book as well as to your socials on the podcast. And then every time I post as well. And Stephen I just, I appreciate you taking the time out and look when you're here again, congratulations with Morehouse and the commencement. And when you're here, if you have time and if I'm in town, I would love for us to get together and I would love to love to meet you in person. And I just, ⁓ I, I, I admire you.

Stephen Cooper (1:11:04)
Okay.

Thank you. Thank you.

Absolutely, absolutely.

We'll keep in contact. Yeah.

Robert Poirier (1:11:28)
I really do. And you are an inspiration. I mean, you certainly are.

Stephen Cooper (1:11:29)
Thank you. Thank you.

Robert Poirier (1:11:33)
just, I love the way you've handled everything. And I just appreciate you taking time out and coming on and sharing your story. So, hey, and thank you all again for listening to the Dad to Dads Podcast. You can find us on Apple or Spotify, as well as most podcast platforms. You can also find us on YouTube and Instagram.

Stephen Cooper (1:11:36)
Thank you.

Thank you. I appreciate you.

Robert Poirier (1:11:52)
feel free to hit the like and subscribe button as well as leave a comment. I read every one of them. I actually enjoy reading your comments and especially the show's suggestions as well. Thank you all again and we will talk with you next time.